D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Emberashh]

It isn't that I don't like your explanation. It's that you've steadfastly refused to provide one.

Battlemaster maneuvers feel the same as spells because they do

Your thing feels different because it does.

These are not explanations..these are assertions. They hold equal weight to contrary assertions. Little.

Im not going to go round and round in a game of "Why?" asked a million times over.

I gave you the examples. If you think theres no difference between them then nothing I can say to you is going to convince you otherwise.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

I gave you the examples. If you think theres no difference between them then nothing I can say to you is going to convince you otherwise.

...no you haven't. you've just thrown around a bunch of names only you have any (edit: proper) context for.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Im not going to go round and round in a game of "Why?" asked a million times over.

I gave you the examples. If you think theres no difference between them then nothing I can say to you is going to convince you otherwise.

Yeah you gave examples that feel qualitatively different to me with no explanation for why they feel the same to you.

Lets say i go:
The space shuttle and a hang glider, without considering how they work or what they do, they're basically the same..amirite?

Would you say I've done a good job of making my case for the similarities between the space shuttle and a hang glider?

 

[Emberashh]

...no you haven't. you've just thrown around a bunch of names only you have any (edit: proper) context for.

I linked it more than once.

 

[Emberashh]

Yeah you gave examples that feel qualitatively different to me with no explanation for why they feel the same to you.

Lets say i go:
The space shuttle and a hang glider, without considering how they work or what they do, they're basically the same..amirite?

Would you say I've done a good job of making my case?

Im not going to go round and round in a game of "Why?" asked a million times over.

I gave you the examples. If you think theres no difference between them then nothing I can say to you is going to convince you otherwise.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Edit: removed needless trolling.

In general, I'm loathe to see martials laden with a set of narrative requirements beyond what's needed for a rough approximation of class balance. So that means, no required magic anything.

And I don't see a need for significant departures from existing game design to accomplish the goal of 'more cool stuff for martials to do'. All I really think that's needed is in the class description sections, designers include cool impactful things that martials can do at higher levels. These could be justified with the same level of effort that went into action surge and second wind (barely any).

That said, it shouldn't be lost that, while I disagree with some of the methods or design requirements other posters like Emberash and Minigiant have come to, I appreciate that they are allies in the 'martials should be able to do cool stuff too' camp

 

[W'rkncacnter]

I linked it more than once.

haven't seen this before, let me take a look...
...okay, so they're like...maneuvers designed to stack with a super effect if you spam them? that's pretty neat, honestly, but i uh...don't really think it's quite as different as you've been hyping them up to be. like, it reads as another type of maneuver system to me. i don't have any problem with that - hell, i dig it - but it does make the last bit of discussion feel a tad redundant.

 

[Krachek]

Because Casters are not reliant on acquiring better magic items as a primary way to improve their abilities.

Why should martials?

Having magic items..good
Needing magic items..bad

I feel sad for DM that play the Grunge rather than Santa when it’s time to give items to their PCs.

 

[FallenRX]

Because Casters are not reliant on acquiring better magic items as a primary way to improve their abilities.

Why should martials?

Having magic items..good
Needing magic items..bad

They dont need magic to improve their abilities this is not what im talking about.

Im saying if you want characters to do high magical things in utility, to remove "magical dependencies", then they will need magical items as they ar enot mages, do you understand what im mean?

I agree martials should get some cooler abilities some of which are(unnecessarily) tied to spells.

But i also feel there are some things that are straight-up just magic, and to do those things them having access to magic items to allow it is part of the game. A lot of casters spells are not meant to be exclusive to them, other characters can access magic to do stuff via these ideas, id argue that is a bigger point of balancing that people think about.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I feel sad for DM that play the Grunge rather than Santa when it’s time to give items to their PCs.

Santa brings toys.. fun stuff for the kids to play with.

You don't rely on Santa for necessities like textbooks and transportation.