D&D (2024) Do you see Fighter players at your own table?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Since some forumers mention that they generally dont see Fighter players at their own tables, I am curious.

I don't think anyone should extrapolate from their tables. Everyone's sample sizes (yes, even the people who DM at stores and conventions) are just too small, statistically speaking.

My tables suggest that nearly everyone is playing rogues and bards, which I logically know not to be true.

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

I don't get why you have to shut off your brain to play a non magical fighter?

I was quoting someone that said that, it wasn't me saying it... I was useing there wxample I guess a Dev said that is what they wanted fighter for

 

[CleverNickName]

I have seen it in almost every campaign I've run or someone else has run. Sometimes they go to twenty, other times to 9 and others to 5. But they are always around, and they seem to do just as well as the other classes in taking the limelight, creating interesting stories, and pulling wow factors in combat.

Same here. I've seen players take the Fighter class all the way to 20th level, I've seen them stop halfway there, and I've seen them only make it to 3rd level before multiclassing (or 6th level and taking a prestige class, back when we were playing 3.5E.) The fighter class is a staple in my gaming groups; seems like we always have at least one.

When it's someone else's turn to be the DM, I usually play some kind of arcane spellcaster unless someone else has dibs. But if I'm not playing a Warlock or a Wizard, my third choice is Fighter. I've played plenty of them over the last three and a half decades...some of my favorites:

• Eric Storm (Fighter, BECM, chose the Paladin path at Name level, made it to 17th level)
• Ivan Ironforge (Dwarf, BECM, hit the level cap)
• Ballinor (Fighter, BECM, made it to 8th level before getting eaten by an allosaurus on the Isle of Dread)
• Sgt. Dax (Half-Elf Fighter, 3E, made it to 18th level before the campaign ended)
• Allenroe (Human Fighter, 3.5E, made it to the level cap)
• Keller Ras (High Elf Fighter, 3.5E, made it to 10th level and then multiclassed with Rogue)
• Sparrow (Wood Elf Fighter, 3.5E, used Unearthed Arcana variant, died at 12th level)
• Hoth (Dwarf Fighter, Champion subclass, 5E, made it to 6th level before the campaign disbanded)

 

[CreamCloud0]

Honestly I don't really see the current martial weapons as being so great that locking their access to certain classes provides a clear enough advantage; the proposed mastery system might be better, or some other built-in upgrade, to make using weapons better for Fighters.

true, the current weapon table isn't all that amazing, i would seriously like to see it spiced up a little with better weapons and more choices, it would probably work as well if we had a proper full 3rd teir of exotic weapons and bumped it all up a level, fighter gets full exotic proficiency and every lower 'weapon focused' class had a handful of martial proficiencies and one, maybe two exotic weapon proficiencies.

half my thinking in suggesting that was the old magic item tables mentality where a good chunk of magic weapons were swords for the fighter so it's more likely they'd get something they could use than anyone else, so if they're the only one with full martial proficiency they're likely to get everything that anyone else can't use and the other half was being mildly pissed that so many classes get blanket full martial proficiency that a) there's no real theming in what weapons most classes/characters have and b) i like the idea of weapon proficiencies from other places like species/feats/background being meaningful ways to customise your character, even if initally we'd be removing the proficiencies from them in the first place.

But it has to be something that you can't just dip a few levels of Fighter to get. Perhaps something like the old weapon specialization? Or just give Fighters the ability to add their proficiency bonus to the damage of weapons they wield?

maybe your exotic weapon proficiency bonus scaled with fighter level not character level, dipping would give you the proficiencies but you'd only have your to-hit scalling from you STR/DEX modifier if you didn't invest more levels.

 

[Emberashh]

Improvise action doesn't count because it's unreliable.

Thats only true if you're starting from a presumption of players constantly swapping DMs.

There's not even a basic framework for what it can or cannot do, as it's entirely up to each individual DM

Those are the same things.

For Improvise Action, you literally have to create ad hoc mechanics out of whole cloth, and how effective that is (or is not) is a completely unknown variable from table to table.

Which is irrelevant, as said, unless you're constantly swapping between groups

It does become an either/or at the players specific table if IA will be a useful mechanic, but that issue is heavily weighted towards the DM being a problem and not merely the mechanic itself.

The game can only go so far to mitigate this issue (and it should), but after a point it has to be recognized that the problem evaporates if your DM says yes, no matter what the game does with IA. A 400 page volume on how to use IA and what all can be done with it is entirely worthless without that basic requirement.

It isn't impossible to have DMs that can run the mechanic with consistency and with an eye towards enabling the power fantasy everyone wants, even without any particular help or guidance from the game. I can personally point at 7 of them, including myself.

But if the game, and the zeitgeist surrounding it, are producing DMs that are so hesitant, if not outright terrified, to grant even basic things via improv, then there is a much bigger fundamental problem at play than a single mechanic.

 

[Minigiant]

Then why didn’t you say that?

I did.

It's just that fans tend to jump the gun and get defensive when I mention than the fighter is designed to be playable if new, tired, drunk, lazy, or otherwise not willing to do more than say "I attack".

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

Thats only true if you're starting from a presumption of players constantly swapping DMs.

or if you try to do things you think is the same and your same DM thinsks is different "because of reasons"

Which is irrelevant, as said, unless you're constantly swapping between groups

it also makes it impossible to compare across tables like say talking on enworld about your game

the DM being a problem and not merely the mechanic itself.

I would say more the lack of mechanic is the problem

 

[Emberashh]

or if you try to do things you think is the same and your same DM thinsks is different "because of reasons"

Not the mechanics fault.

The books can do their best to mitigate bad DMing, but the system cannot circumvent bad DMing unless it completely removed them from the equation.

Even your explicit abilities are just as liable to be denied as an improv action is. They aren't anymore protected from cruddy DMing.

it also makes it impossible to compare across tables

Not every table is the same regardless. Acknowledging that as just the nature of TTRPGs in most instances, but not this one because reasons, is not very consistent.

I would say more the lack of mechanic is the problem

No True Mechanic. (tm)

 

[Incenjucar]

The poll indicates to me that the existing fighter should continue to exist, as it clearly gets plenty of use.

The mythic warrior and other archetypes need to be added separately, rather than fully replacing it.

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

Not the mechanics fault.

what mechanic... there is no mechanic, there is no advise just "You can figure it out maybe"

The books can do their best to mitigate bad DMing, but the system cannot circumvent bad DMing unless it completely removed them from the equation.

this isn't even bad DMing, it's DMing the best you can with a system half written

Even your explicit abilities are just as liable to be denied as an improv action is. They aren't anymore protected from cruddy DMing.

really?