D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Remathilis]

Why are we back to shoring up the Fighter? I thought we had moved on to the mythic martial which would be more like 1 or 2.

The mythic martial should not be simple. We already have that with the Fighter.

Let's pick 1 since simplicity seems to be a cost/benefit to the player and not the character anyway!

So mythic martial get lots of power and versatility at the cost of simplicity. I want that,

Wrong word. My bad

 

[Emberashh]

Athletes are not necessarily Weightlifters. Look at many long distance runners.

When Athletics absorbs Acrobatics, it emphasizes how Strength checks are agile.

Weightlifting is doing something else. It can still be agile, such as throwing a boulder, but is different from gymnastic stunts.

Thats getting too far into the weeds trying to simulate biology in a way that doesn't add anything to the game.

You are right that lifting should be skill driven, but theres no reason to separate it from your general moving, jumping, swimming etc stuff.

 

[Chaosmancer]

true but also the limited DND concept of strength leaves out that the Gymnast's Abdominal, leg and other specific muscles are far far stronger than that fighter with a 16 strength who can break jaws with one punch. That guy in a real world scenario would be on the carpet crying after 15 minutes of trying to keep up.

Okay? I'm sure the gymnast character will be very often using their core muscles to stop their bleeding on the ground. Otherwise, why should this matter? It's been a thing in DnD since DnD. If you don't like it, why not go play GURPS or something.

 

[Remathilis]

Watching the thread devolve into debates about real world athlete ability scores.

 

[Incenjucar]

Relevant to D&D, the trend is:
Str + Dex = Skirmisher
Str + Con = Tank
Dex + Con = Archer

 

[AmandaBarbarian]

with the trade off that they have to memorize the spells before they know what they will have to do. Or be a sorcerer and operate with limited spell pools. Why do fighters get to be combat utility all day long without playing a guessing game? Come on. You want to complain some spells are powerful sure I'll agree. But telling me that mages always have the spells they need and they are always able to use them? I call BS....

so can't we make a list of powers that a fighter can choose from, and then they are like sorcerer and warlock, they can't do anything every fighter can, but they have there level in tricks they can pull?

 

[Vaalingrade]

I can't even begin to address how much this is a player/table problem and not a game problem.

Limited imagination? Ugh.

Only if the table and the players are the designers.

 

[AmandaBarbarian]

There is no such thing as a gymnast with Dex 16 and Str 10.

Look at reallife gymnasts. They are extremely muscular.

Strength is agile.

in real life physical power, manual agility and over all health are all connected. Having anyone with a 16 17 18 19 or 20 in any one of the physical stats and have 10s or 8s in another should be very rare.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

Some requirement I do have understand, and some questions.

A mythic warrior can’t use spells or fluff spells in any way to perform his mythic prowess.

My take:

Yes, but spell mechanics are not entirely off limits. They just should not memorize X per day from list, use VSM components, etc.

Skills, expertise, reliable talent is reserved for expert classes especially The rogue.

Probably but I'm not really concerned about niche protection that much since we are assuming spellcasters remain the same.

We can have a pool of points and spent it on abilities. But the monk already do that with a lot of complaint. Still that would be my take to implement a mythic warrior.

Yes, could do this.

Warrior already have the battlemaster and the maneuvers. More use per day, high level maneuvers, combine superiority dice at high level for increase effects? Make the maneuvers the core of all Mythic Warrior?

You could but I'd just avoid everything from the current Fighter and not use that chassis as a yardstick for anything.

Then there are others rules.
The jumping, lifting, and many other physical skill rules. do we want a mundane rule set and a mythic rule set?
We got to pay attention with DC, because a non mythic warrior may also succeed high DC with magical help.

I would like the mythic warrior to be able to bypass the regular rule sets with certain abilities.

Do we want to have a mythic warrior and an actual warrior play aside, and not feel overwhelm by each other?

Do we want a mythic warrior with multiple sub classes as the fighter with his actual subclasses?

I don't care about overwhelming the current Fighter. As long as the mythic warrior doesn't overwelm a high level Wizard player I'm good. The people that play Champions now alongside Wizards should have no problems with this.

I'd say yes to subclasses as we should design it similar to current classes with subclasses. Which to me points to the gonzo being in the main class.

 

[Yaarel]

in real life physical power, manual agility and over all health are all connected. Having anyone with a 16 17 18 19 or 20 in any one of the physical stats and have 10s or 8s in another should be very rare.

I agree health is holistic.

But Dexterity isnt really about health.

People who have high Dexterity − for aiming guns or wielding computer games or scripting ornate calligraphy − are not necessarily fit, healthwise.

There is a correlation between Strength and Constitution, including in stats for D&D.