D&D (2024) Fighter (Playtest 7)

[Horwath]

I like how the assumption right away is that it has to be watered down.

also this,
just give all fighters all battlemasters features and a normal choice of subclass, at it will break nothing.

 

[Kurotowa]

I like how the assumption right away is that it has to be watered down.

There's no world in which Fighters get the entire BM maneuver package AND a complete other subclass. The 2014 Fighter has issues, but they're not that far behind. And picking between the two, I'd rather have good subclasses than an overstuffed base class. I already shy off from Paladin and Rogue because too much of their power is in that side of the scale.

In terms of DPR, 100%. The changes to Second Wind and Tactical Mind alone give the Fighter a gigantic boost outside of combat, too.

Between Tactical Mind and the skill boosting maneuvers being put in the PHB, a skill focused BM Fighter can hit some really impressive skill DCs. Not as effortlessly as a Rogue, mind you, but good in their own way. It's enough I rather want to try playing a Fighter again, even though I just played one in my last campaign.

That's the best sign to me that this UA has some good stuff. The two longest running PCs I've played in 5e were a Blade Warlock and a Fighter, and while I usually like to not repeat myself and try something new each campaign, UA7 fixes so many of the problems I had with those classes while playing them that I really want to give them both another try.

 

[mamba]

This is a game where a halfling the size of a toddler can have Str 20, so I think one should adjust one's assumptions accordingly.

that seems to be the general direction yes, if one thing makes no sense, just pile on other things that don't either

 

[Vaalingrade]

There's no world in which Fighters get the entire BM maneuver package AND a complete other subclass.

I believe in that world. A Fair and Just world where children grow up safe and happy and well fed, where the old live out their twilight years in dignity, and where Fighters are all fun to play.

 

[DEFCON 1]

There are some things where it's just better and faster for an individual DM to design what they want themselves, rather than waiting around for WotC to design it for them.

Sometimes if you want something done, you've got to do it yourself.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Two years of playtesting said it wasn't that much faster, but true.

Hand me the Infinity Gauntlet.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

if it's not directly explained by a rule or magic, I treat everything as planet Earth physics.

So, no matter the strength, even if it's 20, a 40lb halfling cannot wield 10lb weapon in melee with any sort of competence.

So you complain that the fighter has no supernatural powers AND you complain that a halfling wielding a very oversized weapon is too supernatural for your taste?

 

[Horwath]

So you complain that the fighter has no supernatural powers AND you complain that a halfling wielding a very oversized weapon is too supernatural for your taste?

if the rules said that halflings are on average 180-200lb or they are supernaturally glued to the floor, they yes, I have no problem with them flinging huge weapons at max speed.

 

[Minigiant]

When that is literally the closest you have to evidence supporting it? Yes, that is no more than speculation.

And I’ve watched him run games, he literally does use big scary high CR monsters, and seems to dislike the drawn out combat that comes from having 30 combatants as opposed to 10.

The way Crawford talks in his videos either he plays a heavy dungeon crawl at home, only runs standard games in public, or is purposely obvious to the common complaints about the system until he is ready to begrudgingly change them.

I rather be generous and say that he just doesn't see the problem as he personally runs old school dungeon crawls rather than see he is ignoring problems to boost PHB 2014 sales.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Crawford addresses this in the video. He says they've heard that idea and considered it, but decided against it for two reasons. One is that the Battle Master is popular and they don't want to kill it to give other subclasses a watered down version of what it does. The other is that, believe it or not, not everyone likes Maneuvers and they don't want to force them on players who don't want them.

While I'm all for bringing all the Fighter subclasses up to a good level of performance, I can't entirely say he's wrong that chopping up the Battle Master and giving everyone a small piece is not the way to go. Like, would it really be satisfying to have two Superiority Dice and one Maneuver? I don't think so.

I do think they could expand Second Wind even further, let the fighter use it to add d10 damage to an attack, etc, unify it with Indomitable, and let the BM use second wind to regain dice.

give every fighter number of dice(d6, no scaling) equal to proficiency bonus and number of maneuvers equal to proficiency bonus.
give battlemaster double of that and scaling of dice, d10 at 7th level. d12 at 15th level.

if you want a simple fighter;
Barbarian ------> that way.

No.

First reason, and most important, is that you don’t get to narrow down the classes like that and tell people if they want a simple fighter they are stuck with the very specific archetype of a berserk “uncivilized” rage-monster.
They’re different concepts.

Additional reasons include, but aren’t limited to:

• Not every fighter is the kind of tactical combatant represented by the Battlemaster
• There’s no reason to force manuvers into the base class and thus every Eldritch Knight, Champion, Echo Knight, and Cavalier, when other features can do the job more simply and make the more complex of the above incredibly cluttered and unfocused.
• The fighter doesn’t need to be complex just because you hate simple
• The Barbarian isn’t even that simple

Crawford directly addressed this in the last video. In simple terms.....it’s just not happening. They debated it internally and even tried out some options early on, and it got dropped. There is no world in which the fighter will have maneuvers by default in 2024.

Which is a very good thing.

I like how the assumption right away is that it has to be watered down.

It would.