D&D (2024) Playtest 7 survey is now live.

[Remathilis]

either I am missing something, or you put the bulk of classes in 'need extensive work', not in 'fixed with minimal effort'

The perils of summarizing.

Barbarian: 2. It needed some work at higher level and still needs a bit more oomph, but fixing rage and berserker (and making bear not the autochoice) goes a long way.
Bard: 2. Bards needed some help in spell choices, and that's been all over the map. If they can somehow make the bard spell list suck less, they will have most of its problems sorted.
Cleric: 1. The only thing clerics needed and are benefiting from is the holy order choice. If they can beef up thaumaturge to compete with all weapons/armor, the cleric will be ready to go.
Druid: 3. Wild shape is still going to be shopping out of the MM for options and require a lot of knowledge/research to play properly (on top of being a full caster with a unique spell list). Alas, the attempt to simplify (perhaps overly) wild shape failed so druid will remain a very complex and metagamy class. At least they fixed the temp hp sponge problem and allowed them greatswords and half-plate...
Fighter: 2. Fighter needed a LOT and they got a lot. I think they could have done more with weapon mastery, but what they did get was interesting. I would have personally loved the battlemaster as core fighter, but that wasn't in the cards.
Monk: 3. Already one of the weakest classes, they weakened it further. It's still a lethargic class (stop, I need to rest!) and too much of its kit depends on spending discipline to do anything useful. A higher martial arts die isn't enough.
Paladin: 1. They were already top tier and got even better. I would have loved smite to remain a spell and work with the other smites, but I'm guessing by Eldritch Smite's inclusion that's not going to happen.
Ranger: 3. Ranger needed a lot of love. So far, the love they got was "make Tasha's Core." It boosted it to a solid two with it, but it still feels like it lacks a stong mechanical identity. It's still just a hodgepodge of fighter, rogue, and druid abilities.
Rogue: 2. Cunning Strike opens up SO MUCH room in the Rogue's kit. Its a solid one with CS and all the add-ons.
Sorcerer: 3. Sorcerer needed a lot to get over its "second rate wizard" problem. It got most of it. Innate Sorcery gives it a core identity, most of the metamagics (besides twin) are strictly better, and it got more spell choices it desperately needed. Its a solid 2 now, with only bizarre subclass choices and bonus spells being what is holding it back.
Warlock: 3. Where to begin? Pact magic is still highly dependent on constant short rests and Magical Cunning isn't fixing that. Its also highly abusable with multiclassing. Eldritch Blast is still the S tier cantrip and the best choice for any ranged caster. Bladelock is overtuned and easy to break. Tomelock doesn't even compare to it. The class is trying to do too much by being a gish, a caster, a pet class, and magical sniper and its lack of focus leads to be OP or UP, but almost rarely actually on par.
Wizard: 1. Didn't get anything, didn't need anything. Now that it has the best spell list again and lost its terrible break-a-spell (I mean, Create Spell), its going to be just fine.

Bonus Entry: Artificer: 2. artificer shares a lot of the same problems as warlock, trying to be a caster, a gish, a pet class, and skill class. It's not perfect, but I think the warlock could have used more artificer in its design notes.

 

[Remathilis]

They will get a LOT of flak for that. People want their 8.

The fact that wizards (and clerics) got 8 and 7 respectively while all other classes got 2 or 3 was a problem. Four is a good amount per class, even if the Knowledge, Tempest, Nature, Necromancer, Enchanter, Conjurer and Transmuter all got demoted to supplemental.

 

[Maxperson]

The fact that wizards (and clerics) got 8 and 7 respectively while all other classes got 2 or 3 was a problem. Four is a good amount per class, even if the Knowledge, Tempest, Nature, Necromancer, Enchanter, Conjurer and Transmuter all got demoted to supplemental.

Your opinion aside, specialists of all schools have been in the PHB since 2e, excepting perhaps 4e as I don't know that edition. They will get a lot of flak for this reduction. Everyone whose favorite school was banished from the PHB is going to be upset. They would have been better served to not have any specialists, as at least that way they wouldn't be playing favorites.

 

[Remathilis]

Your opinion aside, specialists of all schools have been in the PHB since 2e, excepting perhaps 4e as I don't know that edition. They will get a lot of flak for this reduction. Everyone whose favorite school was banished from the PHB is going to be upset. They would have been better served to not have any specialists, as at least that way they wouldn't be playing favorites.

And the problem was making school specialists individual subclasses, but that mistake was made 10 years ago. Yeah, WotC is going to get flak for removing four specialists, but I don't see a way to fix that short of putting eight subclasses per class for all eleven classes in the PHB...

 

[Maxperson]

And the problem was making school specialists individual subclasses, but that mistake was made 10 years ago. Yeah, WotC is going to get flak for removing four specialists, but I don't see a way to fix that short of putting eight subclasses per class for all eleven classes in the PHB...

Yep. Specialization should have been handled similar to how 3e did it. In addition to base class and subclass, you get a little something something and give up a little something something.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Your opinion aside, specialists of all schools have been in the PHB since 2e, excepting perhaps 4e as I don't know that edition. They will get a lot of flak for this reduction. Everyone whose favorite school was banished from the PHB is going to be upset. They would have been better served to not have any specialists, as at least that way they wouldn't be playing favorites.

It's not about "playing favorites" which is a really weird way to look at it. They are design choices. And Specialists deserve full subclass writeups to better capture the essence of the Schools of Magic. I know some want to slaughter this particular sacred cow, but I like them.

The people who will be upset will be those who want the new 2024 rules, and feel their 2014 version of the subclass sucks and needed an update to stay relevant. I don't think that number will be too big.

• If they like the 2014 version and don't care about the 2024 rules, it's not a problem.
• If they like what they are already playing, their character will get updates based on the base class, but their subclass will still be what they are familiar with. That won't be much of a problem.

Sure, I am a little bummed about not seeing some new design for old concepts, but it's not enough for me to be truly upset about. I'm not an Illusionist fan only because illusion rules are not very clear and the subclass is very lacking... so I do appreciate that they are trying to fix that in the PH24, as long as they do. We'll see what the final design has in store. While I wanted to see a new pass at the Necromancer, it isn't as lacking, or as necessary for a core book. Diviner and Abjurer are much better Core book concepts that are good parallels for Illusionist and Evoker, respectively and are already popular.

Conjurer and Necromancer (and maybe even Enchanter) are likely pet-like subclasses and they need special attention if they are going to really lean into what many people want from them. Enchanter is problematic (difficult to balance between too weak and too powerful), and Transmuter is boring for adventuring and needs a complete rework. I know people like Polymorph, but who reeeally likes Transmuters overall for the first 6 levels before they get Polymorph?

 

[Horwath]

They will get a LOT of flak for that. People want their 8.

if they merge all 8 schools into single sub-class, they can get away with it.

 

[Maxperson]

if they merge all 8 schools into single sub-class, they can get away with it.

They call that..............wizard.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

if they merge all 8 schools into single sub-class, they can get away with it.

I really tried my hand at putting something like that together. It's still 8 subclasses worth of page space if the abilities are supposed to be anything other than spells/minor buffs that attempt to reinforce those themes. Each school would need to be at least 3 abilities to capture its essence.

If those abilities were condensed into concepts that could fit into micro paragraphs (like Wild Heart Barbarian does), would they be able to capture the essence of a Necromancer or Conjurer (who many would want to be pet classes)? Abjurer and Diviner also have interesting abilities that need decent wordcount to capture.

 

[Horwath]

I really tried my hand at putting something like that together. It's still 8 subclasses worth of page space if the abilities are supposed to be anything other than spells/minor buffs that attempt to reinforce those themes. Each school would need to be at least 3 abilities to capture its essence.

If those abilities were condensed into concepts that could fit into micro paragraphs (like Wild Heart Barbarian does), would they be able to capture the essence of a Necromancer or Conjurer (who many would want to be pet classes)? Abjurer and Diviner also have interesting abilities that need decent wordcount to capture.

if you remove the flavor text for every school and the "school savant" paragraphs, that cuts almost 1/4th of the text.
And some are double-dipping almost the same thing, like Conjuration and Necromancy bonuses to HP of summons, now only one entry,
Divination and transmutation darkvision also is double,