D&D (2024) Rogue's Been in an Awkward Place, And This Survey Might Be Our Last Chance to Let WotC Know.

[UngeheuerLich]

I see no reason to change things. But I can keep making stuff up.

Ranged attacks don't get Dex.

+1magic arrows are now a very common magic item, stacks with magic bows.

Ok. Keep on!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It's easier to patch damage for fighters and rangers. There is a question about how you patch it, I suppose, since fighters have to pick one fighting style without feat investment. I suppose you could have separate fighting styles so TWF adds your dexterity bonus or +2 to damage, whichever is lower, to any weapon attacks using dexterity plus you could adjust duelist to add half your dex bonus to the +2 damage? Or, do you patch it at +2 to damage or half your proficiency bonus etc. My maths are terrible but it is patchable.

I honestly don't get what you try to do.

 

[tetrasodium]

Yeah, rogues don't really live for dex to damage since they get only one attack per round and most of their damage comes from sneak attack. Now that classic light weapons don't require a bonus action in off-hand, the TWF rogue, is getting free damage anyway.

So that leaves fighters and rangers. Other classes might use dex builds but light weapon damage is not going be their main focus. Rangers have been beefed up quite a bit now and max out at 2 attacks, so fighters are going to feel it more so it feels like fighting styles are probably the best place to patch it. You could tweak the ranged one as +2 to attack and +1 damage like specialisation in 1e. You could tweak TWF to allow Strength or half your dex damage to both attacks (the bonus damage from dexterity never exceeds +2); duellist could add half your strength or dex bonus to damage if not wielding a weapon in your other hand etc. I think heavy weapons should just do x3 damage on a crit.

The trouble with putting the choice fork on a fighting style is that there are so many ways to get one free in addition to a bunch of nice stuff by taking a dip. There is also the fact that Fighting styles tend to be one and done, it's rare to see a build that has multiple fighting styles as a keystone to much more than flexibility or a "might be nice" ribbon attached to the real focus of a build. The same is not true of feat choices.

For all of those reasons, what you are suggesting by using fighting style alone is just a self resolving footnote rather than a choice point that forks posted of specialization with opportunity cost.

 

[ECMO3]

how is longsword(d8) better than rapier(d8) if rapier can utilize two stats for attack and can utilize ranged stat(dex) with melee attacks?

I didn't say it is, but a strength-based character can use either and a lot of other weapons in melee that a dex-based character can't.

That said, there are also generally a lot more magic Longswords laying around than magic Rapiers and when you consider powerful very rare and even legendary items it is even more slanted towards the swords.

Longsword is probably a bad example, because of this and because you can do 1d10 with it. A Flail or Morning Star is probably a better example to make your point.

"if I were army quartermaster, I would only(outside reach weapons) order rapiers for all, might get a better bulk discount."

Sure that would work I guess, but I don't see a negative there.

 

[ECMO3]

The trouble with putting the choice fork on a fighting style is that there are so many ways to get one free in addition to a bunch of nice stuff by taking a dip. There is also the fact that Fighting styles tend to be one and done, it's rare to see a build that has multiple fighting styles as a keystone to much more than flexibility or a "might be nice" ribbon attached to the real focus of a build. The same is not true of feat choices.

In the current post-tashas 5E fighting styles there is a huge advantage to getting two styles from multiple classes, especially if you do one of them on a 1-level fighter dip:

TWF and Thrown Weapon Fighting
TWF and Dueling
Any main style and Defense
Any main style and Druidic Warrior
Any main style and Superior Technique

I would say it is a rare build that would not benefit greatly from two styles, and some would benefit with 3 (Defense plus two others).

This was probably true to a degree when we had PHB styles only.

 

[Horwath]

That said, there are also generally a lot more magic Longswords laying around than magic Rapiers and when you consider powerful very rare and even legendary items it is even more slanted towards the swords.

who cares about this?
If you DM throws bunch of items at a party that no one is using, that is bad DMing, it's at best a trade good that you will have to lug around to the 1st pawn shop so you can buy something useful.

Longsword is probably a bad example, because of this and because you can do 1d10 with it. A Flail or Morning Star is probably a better example to make your point.

it's the same as no one uses that d10 option of the longsword, it's a non-property, even thrown would be more useful instead.

Sure that would work I guess, but I don't see a negative there.

negative is that STR only and STR&DEX weapon should not have same damage.

 

[Vikingkingq]

how is longsword(d8) better than rapier(d8) if rapier can utilize two stats for attack and can utilize ranged stat(dex) with melee attacks?

Depends on whether you value Sap over Vex. Different tools in the toolbox.

 

[ECMO3]

who cares about this?
If you DM throws bunch of items at a party that no one is using, that is bad DMing, it's at best a trade good that you will have to lug around to the 1st pawn shop so you can buy something useful.

It is not just the DM, it is the magic items detailed in the DMG as well. There are simply more magic Longsword options RAW, and better magic Longsword options.

I am not saying Dex characters are left out, as there are lots of awesome magic daggers and bows too, but Longsword is simply a better weapon mechanically than a Rapier for a character with a high strength. Not a lot better, but better.

it's the same as no one uses that d10 option of the longsword, it's a non-property, even thrown would be more useful instead.

What are you talking about? Players use it all the time.

The Drow fighter I am playing in the new game I am starting Wednesday is starting with 4 weapons - a Lance, a Warhammer and 2 Hand axes. She bought a couple nets too. When she uses her Warhammer (which is going to be most of the time if she is attacking an enemy within 5 feet) it will be as a d10 weapon.

It isn't a Longsword, because a Warhammer fit the fiction better, but it is the same principle, a d8 weapon you can get d10 with by wielding two hands.

Here is the character:

D&D Beyond Character Sheet

The World's most intelligent Dungeons and Dragons Character Sheet.

www.dndbeyond.com

negative is that STR only and STR&DEX weapon should not have same damage.

Why not? I think they should.

 

[Horwath]

It is not just the DM, it is the magic items detailed in the DMG as well. There are simply more magic Longsword options RAW, and better magic Longsword options.

I am not saying Dex characters are left out, as there are lots of awesome magic daggers and bows too, but Longsword is simply a better weapon mechanically than a Rapier for a character with a high strength. Not a lot better, but better.

again, who cares about magic items in DMG, if a DM uses that in campaign and none of the players are using it, it's bad DMing.
Take the design of the item and rework it so the players are using it.
Or make Magic Mart in every village the stop over.

and there is nothing worse than making magic items for your campaign and then the players use is as a big magic check to cash in at the 1st magic store they stumble upon.

What are you talking about? Players use it all the time.

In 10 years of 5E, I have seen it once, me as a Kensai monk, and I would use greatsword if the rules allowed it, as 2d6 is better than d10.

The Drow fighter I am playing in the new game I am starting Wednesday is starting with 4 weapons - a Lance, a Warhammer and 2 Hand axes. She bought a couple nets too. When she uses her Warhammer (which is going to be most of the time if she is attacking an enemy within 5 feet) it will be as a d10 weapon.

why not maul for 2d6 instead of d10 warhammer?

Why not? I think they should.

If one weapon uses ability that is very bad for ranged(Thrown property) and other is primary for ranged, then melee weapon that uses ranged primary stat should be worse for balance sake.

 

[Horwath]

Depends on whether you value Sap over Vex. Different tools in the toolbox.

same-same, masteries should be more or less equal in worth. depending on your built or party composition.
If fighter can later switch them around, they should be balanced with eachother, so completely irrelevant for weapon balance.