D&D (2024) Rogue's Been in an Awkward Place, And This Survey Might Be Our Last Chance to Let WotC Know.

[UngeheuerLich]

who cares about this?
If you DM throws bunch of items at a party that no one is using, that is bad DMing, [...]

This is insulting to all those DM´d who use old or premade adventures.
It is also just a different style. Random loot tables make the game more fun for some. 3.5 had magic item shops and creation feats. 4e had wishlists. Both made the game less fun for a lot of people. I fondly remember 2e where you found an item and you just used it. In 3.0 I had players who completely changed their imagined build to use a legendary longsword. I have changed so much about my character because of the items I found in 5e.
I don´t call your way bad wrong fun. It is a way for some. For others, the fun is in adjusting your character to adventure. Not having the DM adjusting the adventure for you.

 

[Horwath]

This is insulting to all those DM´d who use old or premade adventures.

why?
because someone does not want to rework a premade adventure even a little?
it's not a lot of work.

It is also just a different style. Random loot tables make the game more fun for some. 3.5 had magic item shops and creation feats. 4e had wishlists. Both made the game less fun for a lot of people. I fondly remember 2e where you found an item and you just used it. In 3.0 I had players who completely changed their imagined build to use a legendary longsword. I have changed so much about my character because of the items I found in 5e.
I don´t call your way bad wrong fun. It is a way for some. For others, the fun is in adjusting your character to adventure. Not having the DM adjusting the adventure for you.

sure, to each it's own.

I still remember the DMs face from recent campaign where we got 3 or 4 custom items, really expensive items, that were not exactly perfect fit for our group.

we sold the lot of it and bought bunch of +1 generic trash to improve a little bit.

Guy lost his will for D&D in that instant.

 

[Vikingkingq]

It is not just the DM, it is the magic items detailed in the DMG as well. There are simply more magic Longsword options RAW, and better magic Longsword options.

This is something that I hope they're going to fix with the 2024 DMG - we know that they're going to be adding a bunch more stuff for monks (hand wraps and bracers and belts and tattoos and the like), so it would be a good opportunity to balance out the distribution of magical weapons in general.

 

[Vikingkingq]

I'd also point out that a better distribution of items in the books is good for all DMs - I've certainly naughty word up enough trying to format homebrew items on D&D Beyond to know that having more premade variety makes things a lot easier for newer DMs and DMs with more restricted prep time, but it's undeniably true that experienced DMs benefit from having more opportunities for inspiration. Hence why third party magic items products are so popular.

 

[Vikingkingq]

same-same, masteries should be more or less equal in worth. depending on your built or party composition.
If fighter can later switch them around, they should be balanced with eachother, so completely irrelevant for weapon balance.

Character build, party composition, spell choices, etc. There are quite a few factors.

And yes, there should be a rough balance, although I think it may have to be a rough one because it can be rather difficult to directly compare more qualitative differences.

 

[tetrasodium]

In the current post-tashas 5E fighting styles there is a huge advantage to getting two styles from multiple classes, especially if you do one of them on a 1-level fighter dip:

TWF and Thrown Weapon Fighting
TWF and Dueling
Any main style and Defense
Any main style and Druidic Warrior
Any main style and Superior Technique

I would say it is a rare build that would not benefit greatly from two styles, and some would benefit with 3 (Defense plus two others).

This was probably true to a degree when we had PHB styles only.

Those are nice to have additions not keystone components of a build . Would you delay gwm spell sniper sharp shooter or some other top tier build defining feat by4 levels for one? Obviously not because you proved the point by bringing up the one level dip.

 

[tetrasodium]

I still remember the DMs face from recent campaign where we got 3 or 4 custom items, really expensive items, that were not exactly perfect fit for our group.

we sold the lot of it and bought bunch of +1 generic trash to improve a little bit.

Guy lost his will for D&D in that instant.

Perhaps the gm should have quoted xge136 to see how much mileage that particular boondoggle of design got them? Sarcasm aside I emphasize with that GM, giving out or selling magic items as the gm in 5e can feel like trying to run a reverse auction selling things nobody can have that nobody needs untill you find the exact item objectively better enough in every way for someone to accept it with a bored sigh.

 

[ECMO3]

Would you delay gwm spell sniper sharp shooter or some other top tier build defining feat by4 levels for one? Obviously not because you proved the point by bringing up the one level dip.

Absolutely I would.

If you are optimizing you are not going to get GWM to start with, so let's just eliminate that one as a consideration. If you are getting that feat, that means you are not making a "top tier build" to start with.

Superior Technique makes a typical sharpshooter build A LOT better. You probably wait until 6th level to get it (after extra attack and Sharpshooter), but it is DEFINITELY worth getting at that time, and you can also get it with a 1-level fighter dip.

Superior Technique+quick throw+archery"sharpshooter means you can throw nets with a bonus action and a +2 on the attack roll and eliminate the disadvantage for long range. You can then follow up with +10 damage multi attack with advantage if you hit until the enemy gets rid of his net. Then the enemy has to waste an attack at minimum to become unrestrained and that is only if he has slashing damage, otherwise it is an entire action.

You can do this once every other fight if you are getting 2 fights per short rest.

As anohter example, if you are going Wisdom-based for attacks and are taking PAM or Sharpshooter Druidic Warrior is essentially required. the +2 from Archery on top of that is huge for sharpshooter and the +2 dueling is pretty darn good for PAM because it lets you use a shield.

 

[Maxperson]

+1

Dexterity might be the ability for "Acrobatics" but IRL Acrobats are all about strength.

Then why aren't these guys the world record gymnasts?

The answer of course is because it's not all about strength. Yes you need to be in good shape, but balance and dexterity is far more important than strength. You can be the strongest person in the world and without the balance and dex, you won't even be able to make a junior high school gymnastics team.

 

[ECMO3]

again, who cares about magic items in DMG, if a DM uses that in campaign and none of the players are using it, it's bad DMing.

I care when I am playing. Playing a character who relies on weapon damage and does not have a magic weapon really sucks.

I have had strength-based martials using daggers in campaigns I have been in because they found awesome daggers.

It is also not just in the DMG, it is in published adventures too .... and most of them do not have a magic mart

and there is nothing worse than making magic items for your campaign and then the players use is as a big magic check to cash in at the 1st magic store they stumble upon.

RAW you can't just do that. There are specific rules for finding magic items.

In 10 years of 5E, I have seen it once, me as a Kensai monk, and I would use greatsword if the rules allowed it, as 2d6 is better than d10.

I have seen it twice in the last month and I don't know, probably 100 times total.

1d10 from a Longsword or Warhammer is the highest damage weapon a Monk can possibly use martial arts with until she gets to very high level. I just finished a campaign last month that had a Monk that used a vesatile d10 weapon for most of the campaign (her first 14 levels I think). She was a Long Death Monk, but she was proficient in both Longswords, Warhammers and Whips.

Moreover, this does bring up two other good reason that I forgot - On any small character a Longsword and a Warhammer are the highest damage strength weapons you can wield against foes within 5 feet without getting disadvantage. I had completely forgot about all the small characters using those two weapons.

What do small strength-based characters use in your games?

why not maul for 2d6 instead of d10 warhammer?

Because my 5 foot tall Drow would look ridiculous carrying both a Lance and a Maul ..... and because she wants her backup weapon to be a warhammer.

If one weapon uses ability that is very bad for ranged(Thrown property) and other is primary for ranged, then melee weapon that uses ranged primary stat should be worse for balance sake.

I only believe in balance when there is a tangible reason for the balance. I see no reason that all strength weapons should do more damage than all melee weapons.