Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
One of my favorite things about 3e was that since your lost your dex modifier when surprised, if you had a negative modifier your AC actually went up when surprised since you couldn't get in your own way.
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- Thread starter Soulknife_Infiltrator
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Horwath
Legend
armor negates some of your agility or prevents some aspects of agility(max dex limit), but it does not cure you of your natural incompetence(dex less than 10)
Horwath
Legend
actually, you lose your dex BONUS to AC, not modifier. so negative mod still stays.One of my favorite things about 3e was that since your lost your dex modifier when surprised, if you had a negative modifier your AC actually went up when surprised since you couldn't get in your own way.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
You're correct, but that's just plain stupid. Flat footed = too surprised to react. No ability to react = no penalty either.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
They are the same. Competence or incompetence with regard to agility are both predicated on your ability to move and have that movement impact your chances to be hit. If you can move more poorly in plate armor due to dex, you can also move better in plate armor due to dex. The armor either inhibits you or it doesn't.
When you set the modifier to 0, you are saying that it doesn't matter how well or poorly you move, it's ONLY the armor that keeps you from getting hit. No matter how high or low your dex is, you will be impacted by the sword. Whether it does damage or not(a "hit") depends on the thickness of the steel and how hard the attack hit you.
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
Debatable. I use "negative bonuses", like a "−1 AC bonus".
I try to avoid negative numbers, but they happen on occasion.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Yeah, but 3e explicitly says negative modifiers are penalties and positive modifiers are bonuses. I had forgotten that. My point still stands, though. If you can't move to get a bonus, you also can't move to get a penalty. You can't move. The rule is bad in 3e.
Horwath
Legend
if you cant move at all in 3e then you dex would be counted as 0, or -5 mod. surprised just means you cannot exploit your reflexes.
I'm not sure what you are getting at by referencing the paralyzed condition(dex=0 & helpless+can't move) because I'm missing the relevance in your statement to the post it was quoting. I was on the fence if @Maxperson 's claim could be the RAW or just bad recollection & internet wisdom repetition. It sounds like
There was a sidebar about something else on 135
Dexterity Modifier: If your Dexterity is high, you are adept at dodging blows. If your Dexterity is low, you are inept at it. That’s why you apply your Dexterity modifier to your AC.
Note that armor limits your Dexterity bonus, so if you’re wearing armor, you might not be able to apply your whole Dexterity bonus to your AC (see Table 7–6: Armor and Shields, page 123).
Sometimes you can’t use your Dexterity bonus (if you have one) If you can’t react to a blow, you can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC. (If you don’t have a Dexterity bonus, nothing happens.) You lose your Dexterity bonus when, for example, an invisible opponent attacks you, you’re hanging on the face of a crumbling cliff high above a river of lava, or you’re caught flat-footed at the beginning of a combat.
Dexterity Modifier: If your Dexterity is high, you are adept at dodging blows. If your Dexterity is low, you are inept at it. That’s why you apply your Dexterity modifier to your AC.
Note that armor limits your Dexterity bonus, so if you’re wearing armor, you might not be able to apply your whole Dexterity bonus to your AC (see Table 7–6: Armor and Shields, page 123).
Sometimes you can’t use your Dexterity bonus (if you have one) If you can’t react to a blow, you can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC. (If you don’t have a Dexterity bonus, nothing happens.) You lose your Dexterity bonus when, for example, an invisible opponent attacks you, you’re hanging on the face of a crumbling cliff high above a river of lava, or you’re caught flat-footed at the beginning of a combat.
Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. (This fact can be very bad for you if you’re attacked by rogues.) Barbarians and rogues have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which allows them to avoid losing their Dexterity bonus to AC due to being flat-footed. A flat-footed character can’t make attacks of opportunity.
them.
The Surprise Round: If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. Any combatants aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so they roll for initiative. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard action during the surprise round (see Standard Actions, page 139). You can also take free actions during the surprise round, at the DM’s discretion. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.
Unaware Combatants: Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don’t get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.
The Surprise Round: If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. Any combatants aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so they roll for initiative. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard action during the surprise round (see Standard Actions, page 139). You can also take free actions during the surprise round, at the DM’s discretion. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.
Unaware Combatants: Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don’t get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.
flat-footed: Especially vulnerable to attacks at the beginning of a battle. Characters are flat-footed until their first turns in the initiative cycle. A flat-footed creature loses its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.
modifier: Any bonus or penalty applying to a die roll. A positive modifier is a bonus, and a negative modifier is a penalty. Modifiers from the same source do not stack, and modifiers with specific descriptors generally do not stack with others of the same type. If more than one modifier of a type is present, only the best bonus or worst penalty in that grouping applies. Bonuses or penalties that do not have descriptors stack with those that do.
surprise: A special situation that occurs at the beginning of a battle if some (but not all) combatants are unaware of their opponents’ presence. In this case, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), those combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a partial action during the surprise round. Creatures unaware of opponents are flat-footed through the entire surprise round and do not enter the initiative cycle until the first regular combat round.
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One of my favorite things about 3e was that since your lost your dex modifier when surprised, if you had a negative modifier your AC actually went up when surprised since you couldn't get in your own way.
AC in 3E was awful - this is the AC and this bonus stacks with this one bonus but not that other bonus and then when you are flatfooted this is your AC, unless it is a touch AC and then it is this.
