D&D (2024) Ranger 2024 is a bigger joke than Ranger 2014:

[ECMO3]

they're dead weight if i don't want to use them, if they don't gel with how i want to play my ranger.

I will go a little further, if you play like I like to play a Ranger, and like I guess you like to play one, the abilities are essentially a ribbon that gets used rarely.

The way I pay a Ranger the new Favored Enemy becomes the rough equivalent of a heavily nerfed Favored Foe from the old Tasha's Ranger. Something that will be rarely used, but will be weaker and more situational when it is used. While the loss of FF is not a big deal as it was rarely used, I also lost or delayed other wonderful and flavorful Ranger abilities that came with TCE.

 

[FrogReaver]

Ranger

At level 5 a ranger just using a shortsword and scimitar, nick mastery and vex mastery (no dual wielder feat) will do 2d6+4 damage per attack with 2 out of 3 of the attacks being vex for a real chance to hit of 70.75% assuming a base 60% chance to hit.

DPR = 23.3

Adding in Dual Wielder (on turns where you don't need to cast or move hunters mark). Real chance to hit becomes 72.74%.

DPR = 32

Weighted average DPR assuming both happen 50% of the time

DPR = 27.7

Collosus Slayer Ranger = +4.5 DPR due to 4 attacks at high accuracy

Ranger Weighted DPR = 32.2

Fighter
Does 1d6+4 with dual wielder every attack for 30 damage total @ 60% base accuracy. Real Chance to hit = 72.74%.

DPR = 21.8

However, fighter has a number of short rest and subclass abilities that can improve DPR.
Action Surge = 15*72.74% = 10.9 Damage per short rest (will be slightly higher due to real chance to hit increasing slightly due to more vex attacks)

Superiority Dice +4.5 Damage *4 version = 18 Damage per short rest
Superiority Dice Riposte = (7.5+4.5)*.7274 = 8.7*4 = 34.8 Damage per Short Rest.

Damage per short rest 28.9 - 45.7.

Rounds per SR	SR - 28.9 Dmg	Total DPR	SR - 45.7 Dmg	Total DPR
3	9.6	31.4	15.2	37.0
4	7.2	29.0	11.4	33.2
5	5.8	27.6	9.1	30.9
6	4.8	26.6	7.6	29.4
7	4.1	25.9	6.5	28.3
8	3.6	25.4	5.7	27.5
9	3.2	25.0	5.1	26.9
10	2.9	24.7	4.6	26.4
11	2.6	24.4	4.2	26.0
12	2.4	24.2	3.8	25.6
13	2.2	24.0	3.5	25.3
14	2.1	23.9	3.3	25.1

I'd assume 8 Rounds per short rest is average. Ranger can do a decent amount of damage more than the fighter when dual wielding. Fighter can really front load it though (that matters).

With 9 potential casts of hunters mark ranger likely can keep it up a whole adventuring day. Ranger also does better ranged damage. Sometimes something like spike growth might be more impactful, giving the Ranger an even better lead.

At Level 11 i'd anticipate the fighter mostly catches up.

 

[FrogReaver]

they're dead weight if i don't want to use them, if they don't gel with how i want to play my ranger.

Maybe don't play classes that have good abilities you refuse to use? Kind of like complaining about being a wizard but refusing to use any spell but a cantrip. Or an eldritch knight that will not do anything but cast spells.

 

[TiQuinn]

i want to play The Ranger Class, i don't want to use hunter's mark, since 2014.

What’s your idea of a Ranger class and how is it not accomplished by one of the other classes?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

i want to play The Ranger Class, i don't want to use hunter's mark, since 2014.

That’s like saying “I want to play the wizard class, but I don’t want to cast spells”.

What is a ranger? It’s the class that amplifies its damage using hunters mark. It’s just a label that is attached to that mechanic, in the same way that “rogue” means “class that uses sneak attack for damage.”

Labels don’t matter. Pick the class that does what you want, names are irrelevant. Call your character Flora the Ranger and they are a Ranger. It doesn’t matter that their class is fighter, that is just the label that goes with the abilities they have.

 

[ECMO3]

What’s your idea of a Ranger class and how is it not accomplished by one of the other classes?

Mine is Nature's Veil, Swim speed, expertise, lots of spells, cantrips and extra attack.

You probably can do all that with some race, feat. multiclass and subclass choices. Also though the Fey Wanderer is ideal for me and that has some abilities you can't get anywhere else.

I am still going to play Rangers, I am starting a new character on my Wednesday game, but it is not as cool a class as it was:

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[CreamCloud0]

What’s your idea of a Ranger class and how is it not accomplished by one of the other classes?

my idea of ranger is a martial using, stealth capable, primal halfcaster. it is not accomplished by anything to do with hunter's mark.

That’s like saying “I want to play the wizard class, but I don’t want to cast spells”.

it's like saying "i want to play wizard, and not have half my class features dedicated to specifically using acid stream or cause fear, shadow blade or hold person"

What is a ranger? It’s the class that amplifies its damage using hunters mark. It’s just a label that is attached to that mechanic, in the same way that “rogue” means “class that uses sneak attack for damage.”

Labels don’t matter. Pick the class that does what you want, names are irrelevant. Call your character Flora the Ranger and they are a Ranger. It doesn’t matter that their class is fighter, that is just the label that goes with the abilities they have.

false. ranger is much more than just a vehicle for hunter's mark.

lables don't matter, but mechanics do, and the ranger's mechanics are far more than just hunter's mark.

 

[ECMO3]

That’s like saying “I want to play the wizard class, but I don’t want to cast spells”.

No it isn't. I play more Rangers than any other class and until the 2024 rules I only hand HM on 1 ranger and got rid of it on that Ranger at level 3. I had Hex on more Rangers than I had HM on.

What is a ranger? It’s the class that amplifies its damage using hunters mark.

For me it is a spells first class with some ability with weapons. Favored Foe was the ideal class boost for damage to me. Not powerful, not used often and you could use it as essentially a Paladin Smite but doing far less damage.

Labels don’t matter. Pick the class that does what you want, names are irrelevant. Call your character Flora the Ranger and they are a Ranger. It doesn’t matter that their class is fighter, that is just the label that goes with the abilities they have.

I agree with this, but for me the big problem is they got rid of the mechanics that made the TCE Ranger great. They got rid of Primal Awareness, they moved Nature's Veil later in game so it will be less of a core mechanic (especially for a multiclass that wants to actually pick and choose from a menu of options) and they replaced Favored Foe with something that will be inferior given my style of play.

 

[Horwath]

Ranger

At level 5 a ranger just using a shortsword and scimitar, nick mastery and vex mastery (no dual wielder feat) will do 2d6+4 damage per attack with 2 out of 3 of the attacks being vex for a real chance to hit of 70.75% assuming a base 60% chance to hit.

DPR = 23.3

Adding in Dual Wielder (on turns where you don't need to cast or move hunters mark). Real chance to hit becomes 72.74%.

DPR = 32

Weighted average DPR assuming both happen 50% of the time

DPR = 27.7

Collosus Slayer Ranger = +4.5 DPR due to 4 attacks at high accuracy

Ranger Weighted DPR = 32.2

Fighter
Does 1d6+4 with dual wielder every attack for 30 damage total @ 60% base accuracy. Real Chance to hit = 72.74%.

DPR = 21.8

However, fighter has a number of short rest and subclass abilities that can improve DPR.
Action Surge = 15*72.74% = 10.9 Damage per short rest (will be slightly higher due to real chance to hit increasing slightly due to more vex attacks)

Superiority Dice +4.5 Damage *4 version = 18 Damage per short rest
Superiority Dice Riposte = (7.5+4.5)*.7274 = 8.7*4 = 34.8 Damage per Short Rest.

Damage per short rest 28.9 - 45.7.

Rounds per SR	SR - 28.9 Dmg	Total DPR	SR - 45.7 Dmg	Total DPR
3	9.6	31.4	15.2	37.0
4	7.2	29.0	11.4	33.2
5	5.8	27.6	9.1	30.9
6	4.8	26.6	7.6	29.4
7	4.1	25.9	6.5	28.3
8	3.6	25.4	5.7	27.5
9	3.2	25.0	5.1	26.9
10	2.9	24.7	4.6	26.4
11	2.6	24.4	4.2	26.0
12	2.4	24.2	3.8	25.6
13	2.2	24.0	3.5	25.3
14	2.1	23.9	3.3	25.1

I'd assume 8 Rounds per short rest is average. Ranger can do a decent amount of damage more than the fighter when dual wielding. Fighter can really front load it though (that matters).

With 9 potential casts of hunters mark ranger likely can keep it up a whole adventuring day. Ranger also does better ranged damage. Sometimes something like spike growth might be more impactful, giving the Ranger an even better lead.

At Level 11 i'd anticipate the fighter mostly catches up.

this is all true, however completely irrelevant, many people do not want to play a class that has to concentrate on HM 24/7.

give us more spell-agnostic abilities for levels 1,13,17&20.

 

[ECMO3]

it's like saying "i want to play wizard, and not have half my class features dedicated to using shadow blade, or hold person"

THIS!

This is the best analogy I have seen. Get rid of 4 of the Wizard's class features and tie them to a specific spell that not everyone wants to use:

Level 1 Arcane Recovery: You always have Sleep prepared. You can cast it twice a day without using a spell slot.
Level 5: Memorize Spell: Your concentration on Sleep can't be broken by damage.
Level 18: Spell Mastery: You can cast Sleep an unlimited number of times without using a spell slot.
Level 20: Signature Spell: When you cast Sleep opponents go unconscious with their first failed save.

This is the equivalent of a Wizard version of the Ranger class mechanics.

Also in terms of power, this would be a more powerful 1st level Wizard and still one of the most powerful characters at 20th level, so you can't argue that it is weak.