D&D (2024) Ranger 2024 is a bigger joke than Ranger 2014:

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Also the same as the Paladin's faithful steed ability which gives a free cast of find steed and makes it always prepared...

I'm not a fan of telling every Paladin that they're a Beastmaster now, either (especially when actually staying on the mount is still a Dex save). But at least it is not actively clashing with their Smite mechanic.

 

[Minigiant]

Arcane Recovery can be used to cast ANY spell you have prepared. It is essentially one or more free castings of any spells.

That would be AWESOME if Rangers had an ability that works like Arcane Recovery and works on any spell they have prepared. Heck just trade the current Favored Enemy for Arcane Recovery as is and it would be a pretty good improvement. I don't think anyone would complain about a "Favored Enemy" that let you regain level/2 spell slots back.

You would still have 3 more abilities tied to Hunter's Mark which would need to be fixed, but at least you would have a cool 1st level ability!

Doesn't work.

The whole point is that you were supposed to get two extra first level slots at in Tier 1.

It's strictly weaker at the point of the game what it was designed for.

Favored enemy and favored foe are designed to allow both combat and expiration abilities at level 1 & 2.

But Ranger is a half caster so it doesn't have enough base slots to do both nor does it have enough cash levels to contribute both.

And if you just give them a ton of extra spell slots at level one it becomes an ultimate dip class for any caster who has the ability to get 13 wisdom since almost every character has 13 dexterity.

It's essentially the Eldridge glass problem but worse. Because you have to make something exclusive to Ranger while also scaling while also have multiple options switch can scale.

Literally the only solution is to invent new exclusive ranger spells and have them scale only with ranger levels.

 

[FrogReaver]

If you compare it to the TCE Ranger it absolutely is hindered.

I see you talk about 2 tce abilities, one of which 2024 ranger still gets. More on that below.

(As an aside I keep reading tce as ‘Tasha’s changes everything’ which is a bit amusing).

I hate this change. it is a lot less usable and weaker on the Rangers I play.

I believe you hate it. I don’t believe it’s less usable or weaker on anyone’s rangers. There’s a time and place for direct damage or for a resource cheap option in a filler fight.

This is not really the issue though as FF was not something I used a lot.

So no real change for you

FOUR levels later which means never on a lot of tables and never even on a lot of tables that do go to 20 if you multiclass.

And where is Primal Awareness?

2 features. 1 removed and 1 you still get albeit 4 levels later. That’s the ‘hindrance’ you are talking about from tce? I was expecting a lot more. I’m majorly underwhelmed.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm not a fan of telling every Paladin that they're a Beastmaster now, either.

(especially when actually staying on the mount is still a Dex save...)

Doesn’t seem to be a problem if you don’t use it in combat?

Also, what about telling paladins they have to divine smite?

 

[FrogReaver]

Plenty of people are complaining about the new Paladin, although I am not one of them.

Sure but not for anything resembling these reasons….

For my playstyle Favored Foe was just plain better than Hunter's Mark and I had more uses than you get free uses of HM.

You also just said you rarely ever used favored for. Feels a lot like a mountain out of a molehill for an ability you rarely used.

 

[FrogReaver]

Arcane Recovery can be used to cast ANY spell you have prepared. It is essentially one or more free castings of any spells.

True but irrelevant to my point. What if you don’t want like the feature and so want something else?

That would be AWESOME if Rangers had an ability that works like Arcane Recovery and works on any spell they have prepared. Heck just trade the current Favored Enemy for Arcane Recovery as is and it would be a pretty good improvement. I don't think anyone would complain about a "Favored Enemy" that let you regain level/2 spell slots back on a short rest .... and at 3rd level you could even use them for two more Hunter's Marks per day if that is what you wanted

You mean besides killing the flavor of favored foe. I think you would get complaints about that. Extra good berries doesn’t scream favored foe to me.

You would still have 3 more abilities tied to Hunter's Mark which would need to be fixed, but at least you would have a cool 1st level ability!

if one believes that rangers using their spells for things other than hunters mark are balanced fine in t3 and t4, and that there are alot of players that like hunters mark, then the obvious thing to do is to buff hunters mark in such a way that rangers don’t really get any stronger when not using it but that when using it they do get to be on par with non-hunters mark using rangers.

Could it really be that simple?

 

[Minigiant]

I'm not a fan of telling every Paladin that they're a Beastmaster now, either (especially when actually staying on the mount is still a Dex save). But at least it is not actively clashing with their Smite mechanic.

The Steed is even less integral to the Paladin than anything else.

It's a true free ribbon feature.

The Ranger LITTERALLY needs 2-3 extra spell slots in Tiers 1&2 to fulfill the fantasy.

 

[Mistwell]

Ranger

At level 5 a ranger just using a shortsword and scimitar, nick mastery and vex mastery (no dual wielder feat) will do 2d6+4 damage per attack with 2 out of 3 of the attacks being vex for a real chance to hit of 70.75% assuming a base 60% chance to hit.

DPR = 23.3

Adding in Dual Wielder (on turns where you don't need to cast or move hunters mark). Real chance to hit becomes 72.74%.

DPR = 32

Weighted average DPR assuming both happen 50% of the time

DPR = 27.7

Collosus Slayer Ranger = +4.5 DPR due to 4 attacks at high accuracy

Ranger Weighted DPR = 32.2

Fighter
Does 1d6+4 with dual wielder every attack for 30 damage total @ 60% base accuracy. Real Chance to hit = 72.74%.

DPR = 21.8

However, fighter has a number of short rest and subclass abilities that can improve DPR.
Action Surge = 15*72.74% = 10.9 Damage per short rest (will be slightly higher due to real chance to hit increasing slightly due to more vex attacks)

Superiority Dice +4.5 Damage *4 version = 18 Damage per short rest
Superiority Dice Riposte = (7.5+4.5)*.7274 = 8.7*4 = 34.8 Damage per Short Rest.

Damage per short rest 28.9 - 45.7.

Rounds per SR	SR - 28.9 Dmg	Total DPR	SR - 45.7 Dmg	Total DPR
3	9.6	31.4	15.2	37.0
4	7.2	29.0	11.4	33.2
5	5.8	27.6	9.1	30.9
6	4.8	26.6	7.6	29.4
7	4.1	25.9	6.5	28.3
8	3.6	25.4	5.7	27.5
9	3.2	25.0	5.1	26.9
10	2.9	24.7	4.6	26.4
11	2.6	24.4	4.2	26.0
12	2.4	24.2	3.8	25.6
13	2.2	24.0	3.5	25.3
14	2.1	23.9	3.3	25.1

I'd assume 8 Rounds per short rest is average. Ranger can do a decent amount of damage more than the fighter when dual wielding. Fighter can really front load it though (that matters).

With 9 potential casts of hunters mark ranger likely can keep it up a whole adventuring day. Ranger also does better ranged damage. Sometimes something like spike growth might be more impactful, giving the Ranger an even better lead.

At Level 11 i'd anticipate the fighter mostly catches up.

Can't leave Hunter's Mark and other spells an subclass abilities out for the ranger but include "a number of short rest and subclass abilities that can improve DPR" for the Fighter.

 

[FrogReaver]

Can't leave Hunter's Mark and other spells an subclass abilities out for the ranger but include "a number of short rest and subclass abilities that can improve DPR" for the Fighter.

Read again. I didn’t. (Didn’t explicitly note it though. 2d6+4 instead of 1d6+4 was the give away )

Also explicitly included collosus slayer.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Also, what about telling paladins they have to divine smite?

This is a better comparison point, seeing how Smite eats up their bonus action (which, just on the damage front, could just as well have been used to make a regular attack to benefit from Divine Favor's extra damage).

And no, I'm not a big fan of forced Smite conflicting with other stuff they might want to be doing (rather than just giving them an extra spell slot)... but at least it's only one bonus action per day, over Ranger's... however many times you'd need to swap Hunter's Mark around when you have whole subclasses that are built around using bonus actions.