D&D (2024) PHB 2024 Is Hilariously Broken. Most OP of All Time?

[Snarf Zagyg]

Most of these would just flat-out not be allowed at my table, since they rely on interpreting the rules in a wonky way.

The real question is: do you really want to be such a poor sport to your DM?

I think that the whiteroom theory optimization threads (and the people that do this work) are actually doing a great service. They are acting as free and unpaid QA* for WoTC and the rest of us!

*Quality assurance, if that doesn't scan for you.

I kid, but only kind of.

Look, I get that there is a thrill in seeing how rules can bend and break- some people enjoy it so much that they turn it into a job. Ahem.

But when we look at these types of threads, I think it is important to remember the following:

1. How realistic is the case? For example, if it can only occur in some crazy MC dip that involves 4 different classes and "turns on" when you're level 12/4/3/1 in them ... well, great to dream about, but you're not going to see it that often. And you need to compare it to what other classes do at level 20.

2. Opportunity cost. If the rules "exploit" requires feats or MC dips or whatever, that means you are giving up other things! There is no free lunch.

3. Result-oriented readings. 5e is written in "natural language," but also uses "specific terms," which somehow combines the worst of both worlds. You read the rules naturally, but also pay attention to sometimes minute differences in specific word choices ... usually involving various adjectives combined with "attack." Anyway, a lot of the exploits are people straining to read the rules in ways that most tables would reject.

4. The "It's not big deal bruh, guys at my high school used to do that all the time," postulate. A lot of the time, a person will announce some exploit with all the subtlety of a youtube video thumbnail showing a shocked woman and a giant red arrow, and when you look at it, it's not an exploit. Just a regular good synergy. It's not punpun- it's a Warlock taking eldritch blast.

5. Finally, if there is a true, insane, OP exploit caused by terrible rules? Well ... thank you to the person who found it, because hopefully that will be corrected at some point. But D&D is a social game. You don't win everything, always, ever. If it is really that insane, you can expect that the table will not allow it. Or, if you bully and ruleslawyer your way into allowing it ... well, D&D is a social game. Reap what you sow and all that.


ETA- I should add that I think that characters from the 2024 PHB are, on balance, more powerful than the 2014 characters. But they are not "OP." And most of the noticeable bumps went to the martials in general (which is good) or to classes that people previously viewed as somewhat lacking (such as monks). The idea that someone might think that a monk with a dagger is now ... OP ... is admittedly kinda funny. DO YOU THINK YOUR WU-TANG SWORD CAN DEFEAT ME?

 

[mellored]

this needs to be addressed, simplest solution. No upcasting option for CME

My preferred change is to make it +1d4 damage on anyone's hit.
Upcast for +1 damage.

Sort of like a short range Crusaders Mantle.

Hallow is really not that good of a spell even when ignoring cost, with a cost, it's terrible, seems like a lazy hot-fix.
still can be removed with 3rd level spell.

Hallow is overpowered, but not broken.

You can't one shot anyone with it. And enemies can simply get out of the area.

Though I wouldn't count dispell as a counter. That's too rare.

 

[DarkCrisis]

All those easy to apply conditions to keep track of during battle. Not to mention HP etc. Reeks of WotC wants a computer/AI to keep track of all of it for you.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Hello

I'm well aware that true strike doesn't give advantage in 2024. That's not the combo. The idea is not to use true strike to give you advantage to "trigger" a sneak attack. You have to make that happen some other way (... there are so many ways).

The combo is the thief's ability to use magic items as a bonus action. It's a debatable reading (I hope the DMG will clear it up), but you could use this feature to read a scroll as a bonus action. True strike generates an attack as part of the casting. Use this attack to get a sneak attack as a bonus action. You can then use your action to ready an attack, and then get a 2nd attack not on your turn, thus getting 2 sneak attacks/round fairly reliably for a small cost.

Ah. I understand now.

 

[Oofta]

All those easy to apply conditions to keep track of during battle. Not to mention HP etc. Reeks of WotC wants a computer/AI to keep track of all of it for you.

It doesn't hold a candle to 4E. But there is only so much design space, especially when it comes to weapons. People complained that martial characters didn't have enough options and now we're getting complaints that because they were given options there's too much tracking! It's a no win scenario.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

It doesn't hold a candle to 4E. But there is only so much design space, especially when it comes to weapons. People complained that martial characters didn't have enough options and now we're getting complaints that because they were given options there's too much tracking! It's a no win scenario.

It's all been downhill ever since Mike Monard pressured Gygax into giving weapons variable damage.

Once the Rubicon was crossed, it was just a short hop and a skip to bards and that co-worker that says, "Hot enough for ya?" right before they microwave their fish for lunch.

 

[Micah Sweet]

All those easy to apply conditions to keep track of during battle. Not to mention HP etc. Reeks of WotC wants a computer/AI to keep track of all of it for you.

I don't know if that's the plan, but I find it strange that there's so much push-back on suggesting that WotC would do it. It's not like the idea of getting D&D to emulate popular electronic media has never been tried by them in the past.

 

[Oofta]

It's all been downhill ever since Mike Monard pressured Gygax into giving weapons variable damage.

Once the Rubicon was crossed, it was just a short hop and a skip to bards and that co-worker that says, "Hot enough for ya?" right before they microwave their fish for lunch.

But the bard would probably be singing something like "It's getting hot in here, so I'll cook this fish in the company microwave." All while doing a strip tease dance and flirting with the refrigerator because it might just be a sexy, sexy mimic.

 

[mellored]

1. How realistic is the case? For example, if it can only occur in some crazy MC dip that involves 4 different classes and "turns on" when you're level 12/4/3/1 in them ... well, great to dream about, but you're not going to see it that often. And you need to compare it to what other classes do at level 20.

CME won't see much problems due to it's high level. But even a straight wizard will be able to destroy an encounter with it, just not as reliability.

And the multiclass build has a strong nova without it. 1 spell + 10 attacks is still a potent round 1.

3. Result-oriented readings. 5e is written in "natural language," but also uses "specific terms," which somehow combines the worst of both worlds.

CME is straightforward. It's just the number is too big.

Similar spells (Spirit Shroud) scale 1/4 as fast.

 

[dave2008]

10% buff plus abilities

Unless my math is wrong it is a 12% HP buff and a 23% DPR buff (+ spells and new abilities).

However, this is for the high end of the CR range which needed the most boosting (and needs more really). I assume the lower CR ones will get less off a boost, but I need to check the lower CR previews and see how they fare.