D&D (2024) PHB 2024 Is Hilariously Broken. Most OP of All Time?

[Zardnaar]

And yet hypnotic pattern can be mostly negated by enemies daisy chaining the next enemy in imitative to end the effect. Lasts 1 turn and enemies still get a good bit of their actions. Its only good because DMs typically dont actually have enemies do that against it.

Spirit guardians is not a wizard spell.

Not sure what this means.

No harder than hypnotic pattern

Why did you change to talking wizard class insead of fireball spell. Feels like some major goalpost shifting.

Light clerics exist. Sorcerers and Bards also use the spell.

It's niche (fodder clearer) doesn't come up that often and when it dies there's lots of other ways of dealing with it.

Situationally a B+tier spell of you're good at it (dragon sorcerer fire, invoker), C tier otherwise.

 

[FrogReaver]

Light clerics exist. Sorcerers and Bards also use the spell.

It's niche (fodder clearer) doesn't come up that often and when it dies there's lots of other ways of dealing with it.

It’s good against any group of 3-4 enemies it can hit at level 5-10.

Comparable to any dm playing enemies against hypnotic pattern intelligently.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Fireball is fine*. Sleep and Hypnotic Pattern and Hold Person are fine. They all have uses. Call Lightning and 2014 Witch Bolt and Chromatic orb and so on -- those, not as much. The actual value of area affect direct damage vs crowd control and shutdown spells varies wildy. The direct damage's damage compared to expected HP totals, the save DCs for the shutdown effects, how many tanks you have/how much damage you are preventing with shutdown, how many less-tanky frontliners you have to mop up the shut-down opponents (people always say direct damage is the least effective strategy, but man someone has to do the actual damage) -- these all come into play. 5e is at least balanced such that which strategy is best is going to require some team/situation analysis (compared to, say, 3e where it really was a foregone conclusion). *and dedicated evokers wrapping their fireballs around their own team on the frontline are helping and providing a gameplay style a lot of people enjoy.

I'm going to assume the infuriating clickbait thread title was ironic, because you're going to have to do waaay better than that to justify it.

It's always going to be subjective. What's worse, an actual game-breaking become-all-powerful or destroy-the-world rules glitch that will immediately get shut down (but is there in the text), an open ended abuse that can come up in real play but not repeatedly, or a confluence of rules creating a play strategy that is just too good too often?

 

[Zardnaar]

It’s good against any group of 3-4 enemies it can hit at level 5-10.

Comparable to any dm playing enemies against hypnotic pattern intelligently.

Hypnotic pattern still reads as miss your turn even if a few go around waking the others up.

Slow hits up to 6 people.

CR 2 has big buckets of hit points comparable to fireballs damage. An upcast hold person or slow generally better.

Fires also the second most resisted/immune creature type after poison.

Hitting 4 targets is more average than good. With crappy aves on most critters controls way better imho.

In 3.5 terms deals fireballs 4d6 damage, AD&D 2d6 or 3d6. Thats how effective a 5E fireball is due to hit point inflation. Would you bother wasting it in those editions if it dealt that amount of damage?

 

[Bill Zebub]

Is every Zaardnar thread a masterclass in hyperbole, or is it just that those are the only ones I foolishly click on?

 

[Zardnaar]

OK combo I referred to.
Level 10 Cleric miracle duplicating hallow and nakumg everything vulnerable to damage.

Monks.
Nick and having 4-6 attacks depending on level MCing a ranger level for nick and hunters mark. Puts out damage similar to the -5/+10 fears without the -5 part.

Nystuls Magical Aura and magic jar shenanigans. Still working this one out.

Emanations in general and forced movement with weapon properties, repelling blast, World Tree Barbarian.

 

[Zardnaar]

Is every Zaardnar thread a masterclass in hyperbole, or is it just that those are the only ones I foolishly click on?

I'm not being hyperbolic I'm looking at the numbers and RAW.

I did spot a lit of combos in 2014 early on and a lot got nerfed in 2024.

Generally look at things like feats first, then new stuff like weapon masteries then any changes to spells and class features.

Rangers+nick is looking very spicy for example. Then you look at Monks and start thinking about putting it togather.

Dual wield daggers, flurry of blows, hunters mark.......

Mostly level 1-7, 8-11 to some extent after 13 care factor is 0.

 

[FrogReaver]

Hypnotic pattern still reads as miss your turn even if a few go around waking the others up.

If you have 10 enemies and hit 6 with hypnotic pattern then as long as the enemy first in initiative is not effected by hypnotic pattern then every enemy gets an action. 6 are used to wake up allies. 4 are used as normal. The spell is now over.

 

[Zardnaar]

If you have 10 enemies and hit 6 with hypnotic pattern then as long as the enemy first in initiative is not effected by hypnotic pattern then every enemy gets an action. 6 are used to wake up allies. 4 are used as normal. The spell is now over.

Depending on initiative or if DM uses group initiative. 6/10 still kiss their turn.

Combats generally over in 2 or 3 rounds.

And thats depending on encountering 10 enemies.

That still fits into a situational spell which is usually a C tier spell. B or higher tier is decent all of the time eg haste or slow (assuming combat spell in combat, social spell in social etc).



Fireball ranges from very poor (single target, fire immune/resistance) through to good in right situation (lower hit points, convenient cluster more the better).

D tier is outright bad all of the time (2014 witchbolt).

 

[Mort]

I'm not being hyperbolic I'm looking at the numbers and RAW.

Except the numbers aren't broken, for the most part, they are remarkably consistent, much more so than 2014.

I was watching the Treeantmonk videos and he was very pleasantly surprised how the classes kept pace with each other (as far as damage). Where there outliers - sure, but, I'll worry about those if they come near my campaign.

And most of the abuses seem to be seriously edge cases (I'll worry about the 17th+ level valor bard casting Conjure Minor Elemental's that also requires someone else to cast haste on him - when I actually see it).