D&D (2024) PHB 2024 Is Hilariously Broken. Most OP of All Time?

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

I was actually putting together a post about this when you responded & conveniently gave an even better jumping off point for it just before I as thinking about hitting submit

Where in the rules are people getting this "they always drag behind you"Can't drag beside you bit? Yesterday I spent a couple hours cutting & dragging (big) branches from a neighbor's tree out of the alley so they could be picked up when the Milton cleanup gets to the "collecting yard waste like branches" step and nearly all of it was dragged at my side because that's how human anatomy works when dragging big & awkward things.

Just to clear any "common sense says" type hurdles, none of it was capable of resisting my attempts to keep it grappled as I drug it & very little left a free hand capable of doing things like swinging a machete (or whirring the ficus sized "chainsaw")

I really did have to ask myself if you were trying to yank my chain or were being serious with this post. I'll assume you were being serious.

So you were dragging a tree branch beside you, outside of your 5' space? I don't think so. You were trailing it behind you. Come on. Basic physics at play here. If the branch was light enough and not resistant to your efforts (cuz you know, it's a branch), or if it was wide enough, you could say it was sticking into the 5' space beside you I suppose. Carrying some branches should be pretty obviously not nearly the same thing as pulling along a struggling, heavy being, which is why I'm wondering if you are trying to yank my chain here.

If you want to rule at your table that bits of the thing you're dragging stick into a spell's zone, go for it. Not the way that most would picture this situation I'm afraid.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

By the way @tetrasodium , how are things for you post-hurricane(s)?

 

[NotAYakk]

Counter arguement there's no rule saying you cant either.

Yes, you can write and invent rules that break 2024. This doesn't tell you much about 5e rules.

There is no rule saying a dog can't play basketball either.

In practice you'll get someone cheese gratering a foe. And the DM who hasn't seen it before will read up on the ambiguity and say "it doesn't work like that" next time, or everyone will say "sure".

Of course, a big part of the problem is the player pushing for an edge interpretation of rules without telling the DM they are stretching the rules. When I see a rules interpretation that is pushing it, I talk to my DM about it and the consequences...

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes, you can write and invent rules that break 2024. This doesn't tell you much about 5e rules.

There is no rule saying a dog can't play basketball either.

In practice you'll get someone cheese gratering a foe. And the DM who hasn't seen it before will read up on the ambiguity and say "it doesn't work like that" next time, or everyone will say "sure".

Of course, a big part of the problem is the player pushing for an edge interpretation of rules without telling the DM they are stretching the rules. When I see a rules interpretation that is pushing it, I talk to my DM about it and the consequences...

I dont think being up to move forward, back or left to right with the grappler fearless taking your opponent with you is an edge case.

People have been force moving opponents into zones for a long time now. WotC changed the rules on how some things work.
If you took the feat and made your grapple roll what would you expect to happen if you moved from A to B?
All I'm saying is you can more from A to B to A to B RAW.

 

[tetrasodium]

I really did have to ask myself if you were trying to yank my chain or were being serious with this post. I'll assume you were being serious.

So you were dragging a tree branch beside you, outside of your 5' space? I don't think so. You were trailing it behind you. Come on. Basic physics at play here. If the branch was light enough and not resistant to your efforts (cuz you know, it's a branch), or if it was wide enough, you could say it was sticking into the 5' space beside you I suppose. Carrying some branches should be pretty obviously not nearly the same thing as pulling along a struggling, heavy being, which is why I'm wondering if you are trying to yank my chain here.

If you want to rule at your table that bits of the thing you're dragging stick into a spell's zone, go for it. Not the way that most would picture this situation I'm afraid.

We miught be describing & imagining different things Drag on the side like this pic from here. rather than behijnd like this.

If you look at the first picture it most certainly shows the branch & bulk of what is being dragged in what would be an adjacent or (perhaps) diagonal square with no free hand like the grapple rules have

By the way @tetrasodium , how are things for you post-hurricane(s)?

Doing good here, we lost power a couple times but the real mess was far to the west where they got the surge & flooding or a good bit north of me where they got all the tornadoes. Top umm... car sized bit of a neghbor's douglas fir broke off & he didn't have the tools to break it down to get it out. The city is ooooold (like 1885★ snowbird spot level old). various hurricanes took out anything not up to modern post andrew codes long ago but we still have the old unpaved access roads between houses☆ with underground fiber/gas/electric lines

☆Yes we have normal paved roads but it's good for buried infrastructure & was probably once for those people to walk down in the days of jim crow.redlining
★ almost anything in south Florida that predates AC is probably from before it was part of the US or shortly after.

 

[Oofta]

...

There is no rule saying a dog can't play basketball either.
...

Of course not, because they can.

 

[Oofta]

If someone wants to drag someone somewhere and then force them into a hazardous area in my game? Okay ... give me an attack to shove them unless you want to go into the area yourself. So that strength based fighter might be able to do it, in some rare cases it might even be worthwhile.

 

[Zardnaar]

If someone wants to drag someone somewhere and then force them into a hazardous area in my game? Okay ... give me an attack to shove them unless you want to go into the area yourself. So that strength based fighter might be able to do it, in some rare cases it might even be worthwhile.

Shove is different. You can do push effects in various ways.
Grappling doesn’t move the other person into your square.

RAW you can move up to half your speed moving the other person. Grappler feat full speed.
Where do you think they go?

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

We miught be describing & imagining different things Drag on the side like this pic from here. rather than behijnd like this.

If you look at the first picture it most certainly shows the branch & bulk of what is being dragged in what would be an adjacent or (perhaps) diagonal square with no free hand like the grapple rules have


Doing good here, we lost power a couple times but the real mess was far to the west where they got the surge & flooding or a good bit north of me where they got all the tornadoes. Top umm... car sized bit of a neghbor's douglas fir broke off & he didn't have the tools to break it down to get it out. The city is ooooold (like 1885★ snowbird spot level old). various hurricanes took out anything not up to modern post andrew codes long ago but we still have the old unpaved access roads between houses☆ with underground fiber/gas/electric lines

☆Yes we have normal paved roads but it's good for buried infrastructure & was probably once for those people to walk down in the days of jim crow.redlining
★ almost anything in south Florida that predates AC is probably from before it was part of the US or shortly after.

Glad things are over all okay with you. That flooding sounds like hell on earth.

 

[Oofta]

Shove is different. You can do push effects in various ways.
Grappling doesn’t move the other person into your square.

RAW you can move up to half your speed moving the other person. Grappler feat full speed.
Where do you think they go?

I was very clear that I'm talking about when I'm DMing. My ruling is that you are dragging them behind you and that you are basically combining squares if it ever matters. You can't grapple and drag someone while also holding them out at arms length.

Feel free to rule differently, the rules don't go to this level of detail so that different groups can run it differently if they want.