D&D General Playstyle vs Mechanics

[TwoSix]

You're taking things too literally. 'The great unwashed masses' is clearly an exaggeration for comedic effect. I don't think Emerikol was actually describing D&D's playerbase this way.

I dunno, I've been to a lot of cons....

 

[soviet]

And that strand of playstyle that became the Hickman revolution, and was dominant by the release of 2e, existed in the player base since the first spread of the game.

None of that is surprising. Different styles exist across every type of game (and every type of storytelling medium) because people start with different preferences, and apply those preferences to the activity in front of them.

Mechanics evolve to match intrinsic preferences for different playstyles. And when you have something totemic or singular (like D&D was in that time period, and arguably still is), groups with differing and often contradictory preferences will fight over it; that leaves the mechanics partially supporting many playstyles.

You post like you disagree with me but I think it's the same point I made. I would quibble over the mechanics themselves necessarily evolving, unless you mean drifting by individual groups rather than the strict RAW.

 

[soviet]

I dunno, I've been to a lot of cons....

Conceded! I used to go to a lot of MtG tournaments back in the day

 

[TwoSix]

You post like you disagree with me but I think it's the same point I made. I would quibble over the mechanics themselves necessarily evolving, unless you mean drifting by individual groups rather than the strict RAW.

Oh no, I was agreeing with you!

 

[payn]

I think often we confuse the two. Obviously some mechanics support a playstyle better than others but you can do a lot of playstyles with a game like D&D.

I have noticed some folks think their play style is how all RPGs should work. So, when mechanics dont support their playstyle, they just write them off as bad. I think conversations about games helps, and I think designers writing good manuals will facilitate the idea that there isnt one play style intention for every RPG.

I think I've been playing my playstyle in D&D all the way through 3e and into 4e. I've really never played a different playstyle.
Mechanics though have changed greatly. And I realize that most of my deal breakers are mechanics. I can usually fit my playstyle onto the game if the mechanics aren't objectionable in some fundamental way.

My play style has largely adapted over time with experience of many RPGs, but certainly the big changes within D&D have had impact. For example, I do not care for survival sim book keeping and traditional dungeon crawling experiences. D&D no longer catering specifically to them isnt a big deal to me. I dont like tactical combat that takes a significant amount of time and requires team focus in my games either. I do like strategy, I do like vulnerable PCs, and I like dangerous environments and foes too. I am totally with the Hickman revolution and expect metaplots and long running campaigns.

That is all D&D though. I will play dungeon crawler skill play with DCC if I get the chance. Its mechanics are perfect for it. I will examine the goal of progressing in one's career over maintiaing their humanity in Bladerunner. That is the mechanical focus of that game. I udnerstand them, and can play them as intended. I dont expect them to support my one and only playstyle preference. I go where the mechanics lead, and if the milk is sour, im not the kinda cat to drink it. Thats doesnt make that game bad though, it just makes it one Im not interested in.

So in my view, D&D being the flagship 2nd favorite game of so many people,

On this point I think folks are missing "2nd favorite" as some kind of knock or even more oddly as a statement of absolute fact. It just means that 5E is the most palatable for old hands that probably prefer an older edition, but play 5E because its on top at the moment. Obviously, there are many folks who think its the bees knees and is their absolute favorite.

should provide the least objectionable mechanics possible because their fans will force fit their playstyle onto flexible mechanics. I think WOTC hasn't always chosen that path.

I think they clearly did with 5E.

 

[Clint_L]

And I am more nitpicking your argument than your conclusion. I suspect as you seem to that many people don't even know other games exist. I call them the filler players. They don't go to enworld. They don't read hobby sites. They just know D&D and they buy whatever they need to buy to play. This is why WOTC can get away with practically murder. They will always keep the fillers and there is always at least one group for the murder.

I have two criticisms.

One: referring to a vast swathe of people as "filler players" is SUPER condescending and insulting, isn't it? Maybe it's just me, but it sounds mean. I would not call someone a "filler player" to their face.

Two: that assumption is very convenient for your thesis. It allows you to ignore a pretty substantial piece of contrary evidence. Confirmation bias being what it is, I think we should be extra skeptical of convenient assumptions.

What if most of those players are smart, discerning people who simply really enjoy D&D?

Edit: Ironically, D&D probably is my second favourite TTRPG, depending on my mood. Dread is my hands down favourite, probably because its one mechanic is so brilliant at establishing the tone and thus contributes significantly to the play style.

 

[Campbell]

Sure, if you limit the discussion to games that are structured in basically the same way the differences between how much the individual games' rules will impact the play experience will be fairly minor (and mostly aesthetic). I find myself thoroughly shocked.

 

[Oofta]

Agreed. My understanding of the 'D&D is everyone's second choice' principle is that D&D is at least everyone's second choice. A preferred choice to many and an acceptable compromise to others.

Based on ... what exactly? Do you have any polls, any justification for your claim other than your personal opinion? Is it everyone's first choice? No, of course not. It's no everyone's second choice either. For pretty much everyone I play with it's our first choice.

You're taking things too literally. 'The great unwashed masses' is clearly an exaggeration for comedic effect. I don't think Emerikol was actually describing D&D's playerbase this way.

They've been using a lot of dismissive terms. D&D is able to get away with murder is another example, or that people don't know that other TTRPGs don't exist which is condescending to a whole lot of people. Calling D&D everyone's second favorite is telling people that they would agree with you if they just knew better.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I think 4E supported a very narrow and specific playstyle, one which in the long run I didn't care for. You had to buy into the whole "everyone is an anime character" to me. It was good if you happened to like that playstyle.

Meanwhile for me the rules for most editions are just there for me to tell stories where I embody some fictional PC, frequently shaped by the fantasy novels I read when I was a kid. I was a big fan of Lieber, so Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser will always to a certain degree define the core fantasy archetypes. Probably why I like playing fighters, barbarians and rogues so much.

No game can cover every genre, but all you have to is read a few of the threads around here to realize that it does support, perhaps with a bit of house ruling here and there, a fairly wide swath of fantasy fiction. We don't necessarily need to have a game set in the World of Darkness, although Ravenloft leans in that direction. We aren't always fighting some eldritch horror awaiting our endless doom like Chthulhu or tied to heists or any other formula.

It will never be great at all genres, I don't think any system as relatively rules heavy as D&D could be. But I've been playing a variety of character tropes for decades now having a very similar experience over multiple editions.

I strongly disagree! We jumped from 1E to 4E and played the two the same way. If anything I think 4E is more flexible in place styles traditional 1E, 3E, or 6E. People just got hung up on some things and somehow it squashed the creativity. That was not a problem for us.

 

[Oofta]

...
On this point I think folks are missing "2nd favorite" as some kind of knock or even more oddly as a statement of absolute fact. It just means that 5E is the most palatable for old hands that probably prefer an older edition, but play 5E because its on top at the moment. Obviously, there are many folks who think its the bees knees and is their absolute favorite.

But if for many folks it's their favorite than stop using "Everyone's 2nd favorite". "Many people's second favorite"? Sure. That should go without saying. It's kind of like telling an offensive joke and then saying "I was just kidding. You know that, right?"