D&D General Playstyle vs Mechanics

[mamba]

Except they are telling you what they do/did at their tables or how they would handle these situations at their tables.

no, they made general comments, the two actual examples (Fate and UPS) supposedly are just that, and anything else was ‘use coincidences like X, Y or Z’ or ‘discuss how to work it into the world’, or they suggested something that was outside the background feature wording altogether ‘have them find new contacts’

 

[TwoSix]

no, they made general comments, the two actual examples (Fate and UPS) supposedly are just that, and anything else was ‘use coincidences like X, Y or Z’ or ‘discuss how to work it into the world’, or they suggested something that was outside the background feature wording altogether ‘have them find new contacts’

Maybe the background just makes you like Dave.

Dave was bragging to his boss one day, "You know, I know everyone there is to know. Just name someone, anyone, and I know them."

Tired of his boasting, his boss called his bluff, "OK, Dave, how about Tom Cruise?"

"No dramas boss, Tom and I are old friends, and I can prove it." So Dave and his boss fly out to Hollywood and knock on Tom Cruise's door, and Tom Cruise shouts,

"Dave! What's happening? Great to see you! Come on in for a beer!"

Although impressed, Dave's boss is still skeptical. After they leave Cruise's house, he tells Dave that he thinks him knowing Cruise was just lucky.

"No, no, just name anyone else," Dave says.

"President Biden," his boss quickly retorts.

"Yup," Dave says, "Old buddies, let's fly out to Washington," and off they go.

At the White House, Biden spots Dave on the tour and motions him and his boss over, saying, "Dave, what a surprise, I was just on my way to a meeting, but you and your friend come on in and let's have a beer first and catch up."

Well, the boss is very shaken by now but still not totally convinced. After they leave the White House grounds he expresses his doubts to Dave, who again implores him to name anyone else.

"Pope Francis," his boss replies.

"Sure!" says Dave. "I've known the Pope for years." So off they fly to Rome.

Dave and his boss are assembled with the masses at the Vatican's St. Peter's Square when Dave says, "This will never work. I can't catch the Pope's eye among all these people. Tell you what, I know all the guards so let me just go upstairs and I'll come out on the balcony with the Pope." He disappears into the crowd headed towards the Vatican.

Sure enough, half an hour later Dave emerges with the Pope on the balcony, but by the time Dave returns, he finds that his boss has had a heart attack and is surrounded by paramedics.

Making his way to his boss' side, Dave asks him, "What happened?"

His boss looks up and says, "It was the final straw... you and the Pope came out on to the balcony and the man next to me said, 'Who the heck is that on the balcony with Dave?'

 

[tetrasodium]

Have you come to this conclusion based on actual game experiences? Or is this theoretical, based on reading rules and reviews? Not to diminish or challenge your opinion, I'm genuinely curious, because in my experiences (as both a player and a DM over the past 10 years of 5e) I've experienced plenty of grit and grimdark sessions in this system.

Granted, that's been due to a variety of reasons:

• harsher DM calls
• ignoring encounter "balance" suggestions and setting up fights to be harder on purpose
• being more stingy on when characters can take short or long rests
• having the campaign take place in a more grim or low magic setting

For that last one, the settings didn't change any of the rules, just the pre-conceived notions of how prevalent magical healing and loot are in a D&D campaign setting. Ie, no magic items for sale, casters not being commonplace in settlements.

To each their own, but I disagree that 5e objectively cannot do other campaign styles than heroic fantasy.

Is this a real question? Of course I came to these conclusions through experience. Also the fact that the settings did not change any of the rules to support their tone & themes is a big part of why 5e is so awful at supporting other play & campaign styles through the system's ongoing failure to support GM's....

 

[Oofta]

I don't know what you mean by this, nor do I really understand how it relates to my post.

For instance:

GM describes "You see a person walking towards you" while reading their notes that this is a 4 hp village elder.​

​

Player responds "I zap them with a lightning bolt."​

​

Dice are rolled - but the minimum damage, even if the GM rolls a successful saving throw, is 4 hp.​

​

GM notes that the village elder drops to zero hp, and narrates "The lightning bolt strikes them dead."​

How is this anything other than the fiction "serving" (more precisely, being constrained and shaped by) the mechanics? You can add all the fluff you want, all the creative explanations in the world or none at all, and the PC still casts the spell, it still deals the damage that it deals, in the fiction the NPC keels over dead.

And the strawman award of the morning goes to PEMERTON!!!

You can set up specific strawmen encounters that will have predetermined results and it doesn't change anything. The specifics of the outcome of any real combat encounter is not predetermined. The outcome of some background features is hard coded and nothing can change it outside of the DM altering the rule.

 

[mamba]

Maybe the background just makes you like Dave.

that is not what the background says though, and it is also not what your example shows. Dave knew those people from previous encounters, he did not just meet them for the first time and they just welcomed him with open arms

 

[soviet]

The results of combat are never predetermined. The results of using a background feature are. You can add all the fluff you want, all the creative explanations in the world or none at all and as written the background feature still works.

There are things within combat that automatically succeed though. You can automatically move your base rate to get into close quarters with someone, for example (barring some sort of legendary interrupt action I guess). You can draw your sword automatically. You can use action surge automatically. These things just don't resolve the actual fight.

Similarly, the background traits are pretty minor effects that mostly set up other rolls or negate minor obstacles. The local populace give you shelter - OK, what next? The underworld messengers send a message for you - OK, how is it received, what happens as a result? The hobgoblin court grants you an audience - OK, can you convince them to do what you want, or even not to eat you?

It's a false equivalence to say the effects of the background traits are like automatically winning a combat. These are minor, minor things.

 

[soviet]

And the strawman award of the morning goes to PEMERTON!!!

How do you plan to pass the trophy over?

 

[TwoSix]

that is not what the background says though, and it is also not what your example shows. Dave knew those people from previous encounters, he did not just meet them for the first time and they just welcomed him with open arms

I haven't looked at the background in a while; isn't it just a person who's traveled extensively and has something like a worldwide contact list?

The whole kerfuffle over backgrounds just strikes me as much ado about nothing; they don't get invoked much normally, and when they do, it's trivial to come up with plausible narrations to fit.

If you're in a situation where a plausible narration isn't forthcoming, the player will just choose not to invoke it then. Easy peasy.

 

[TwoSix]

How do you plan to pass the trophy over?

Televised ceremony?

Do people pass it around and bring it to restaurants, like the Stanley Cup?

 

[Bae'zel]

Is this a real question? Of course I came to these conclusions through experience. Also the fact that the settings did not change any of the rules to support their tone & themes is a big part of why 5e is so awful at supporting other play & campaign styles through the system's ongoing failure to support GM's....

Yikes ok. I wholeheartedly disagree with you, and find your tone off-putting, but this conversation really won't go anywhere. I won't be able to convince you otherwise.

Have a good one, I hope that you find what you're looking for in other games, if you haven't already.