No, more than one person has said that their players don't (and shouldn't) think about the integrity of the fiction at all, their role instead is to press every advantage and play to win regardless of the fiction. Hence the apparent need for a non-permissive rule set and a strict GM to keep them in lineNo. That's not the case. But we do play with people who aren't perfect and sometimes declare an action without thinking fully about the fictional circumstances, or aren't 100% certain that it would fail and so make the request just in case it might. Perhaps don't think the worst about the players of those of us on the other side of this discussion.
I could make a comment about the "lack of imagination" involved in only seeing it as people who don't care about the game, but I won't. I'll leave that sort of thing to your side of this discussion.
D&D General Playstyle vs Mechanics
- Thread starter Emerikol
- Start date
Some players don't care. For the sake of the other players I do sometimes enforce limits.
But this sounds familiar. If players don't set limits they're bad players. DM sets limits? Bad DM.
I don't think we've said otherwise. My assumption, though, is that players are reasonable and if they declare an action then they've already made this assessment. They won't always be right, but they're certainly not declaring things when their PC is asleep and suchlikeThe shared imagining, yes. I'm very reasonable as a DM and I have yet to have players disagree with me when the fiction clearly indicates something should or should not work.
Exactly! Now that you, and @soviet, @prabe, and @hawkeyefan(since they liked your post) have acknowledged that there are circumstances in the fiction which will override mechanical abilities that "always" work, we are all on the same page!
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Yep. But again, some of us want things to actually make sense in the fiction. If your wizard casts spells 100% of the time, has no background where he used weapons and armor, and doesn't tell me that he's practicing with the party fighter, you aren't going to suddenly be an expert in all weapons and armor at second level.
It's not hard to actually roleplay out the multiclasses you want to be in my game. I'm pretty easy going, but it's not going to happen spontaneously unless the class involved is explicitly spontaneous(sorcerer) or involves making a pact with a creature that can give you the abilities(warlock). Even then it's going to have to enter the fiction somehow before you gain the abilities with something like warlock.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Sometimes we have to go to extremes to get people to even admit that it's possible for the fiction to override an ability. People tend to get stubborn on forums.
I'm not going to assume that the players are automatically being reasonable and allow an action just by virtue of the player making the declaration. As I said in my other post, sometimes they aren't thinking the circumstances through all the way, or think there's a small chance, or...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say earlier that there are multiple posters whose posts you can't read? Maybe don't make sweeping assertions about what has or hasn't been said if so.
Where has anyone said the opposite?Sometimes we have to go to extremes to get people to even admit that it's possible for the fiction to override an ability. People tend to get stubborn on forums.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
No. I'm not going to assume what posters I can't see might or might not have said. This site makes me blind to them, so as far as I'm concerned they don't exist. Nobody that I've seen has made that assertion, so I'm fine with my statement backing up the post saying nobody has asserted that position.
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Which of the 2014 background features even mention a skill check? Oh yea... seem to remember an almost 200 page thread where you yourself were rather outraged that rustic hospitality was even capable of not delivering your group a full night's rest in town while the local Duke's guards were hunting for you..
Some players don't care. For the sake of the other players I do sometimes enforce limits.
But this sounds familiar. If players don't set limits they're bad players. DM sets limits? Bad DM.
When a thread gets this long, posters seem to get pegged for or retreat to, extreme positions that don't actually represent any play style much less their own.
Always best to remember, while approaches and preferences differ, everyone is generally trying to provide the best play experience they can at the table, player or DM. Certainly in this thread, hopefully no one is actually trying squash anyone else's fun.
