Here's the scenario. For whatever reason perhaps via Genie you are put in charge of D&D 2024 release. Bit of roleplaying here there's 3 different criteria I'm asking you to design. You don't need to design actually you're the boss order the peons about.
Assume you have a decent budget and you have to produce 1-3 core books. That's all you get though. Pagecount can go as high as 5.5. No you can't rerelease your favorite editions entire line or a 10000 page book New product Otherwise go for it.
3 different products. No wrong answers interested in your thoughts.
1. This edition is make the most money. What do you do?
2. You can command the peons to make your personal love letter to D&D. It only has to appeal to you.
3. You can rebuild the game from the ground up doing whatever you like commercial viability be dammed. New classes orange, apples and toast go for it.
My answers.
1. Some form of revised 5E. May be different than 2024 we got but it's along those lines I suppose. Baldurs Gate Edition possibly.
2. Probably a mix of 5.5 and OSR elements. Hit points back to 3.0 or 3.5 levels. Gritty. Probably use feats. Moderate complexity similar to 2014 5E probably. Exhaustion levels instead of energy drain, spells indirectly nerfed (change the meta)
3. Complete rebuild from the ground up. Something like greater magic resistance would be used. Archetypes probably cut, levels might be cut to 10, spells above 5th level may go bye bye. Very simple aimed at newer DMs. Alot of power creep from 5.5 is gone Probably archetypes removed, power levels dialed down. Phb would not be 330 pages. Classes and races as 2024 and 2014 phb.
If I am in charge I work for WOTC, so I am a corporate hack.
Whether it is good business or not, I do whatever the Hasbro big wigs want to maximize my Christmas bonus and then when I get off work I go play Pathfinder with my friends.
This is the tough part. I honestly don't know what I could do to make more money as I don't really understand why D&D is so successful in recent years. Was it the 2014 rules? Was it COVID? Was it Stranger Things and other media?
1. get rid of subclasses, all subclass features are now feats to take, some might have a base class requirement, most would not have
2. weapon masteries are known, and can be applied to certain type of weapon attack, one per attack. not tied to specific weapon. we really do not need every rogue and their mother with shortsword+scimitar combo.
3. halfcasters have same spell level progression as full casters, but stop at 5th level and get less spell slots at earlier levels.
3a. delete 1/3rd casters, spell gain is just too slow.
4. getting rid of ability scores, use just modifiers.
5. weapons do fixed damage to save up on roll times.
beating AC by 5,10,15 or 20 points, deal extra 50%, 100%, 150% or 200% damage(round down)
missing AC by 5 or less deals 50% base damage and cannot trigger and on-hit riders.
Graze mastery would widen the 50% damage window to miss by 10 or less.
nat 20 gives extra +50% damage on top what you would make to keep the "nat 20" special.
I.E: great sword, 12 damage.
beat AC; 12 damage
beat AC by 5, 18 damage
beat AC by 10, 24 damage
beat AC by 15, 30 damage
beat AC by 20, 36 damage
if roll is "nat 20" add +6 damage
miss AC by 5 or less; 6 damage, cannot trigger on hit bonuses; adding poison, smite, sneak attack, masteries, maneuvers, etc.
other abilities:
Sneak attack, +2 damage per rogue level.
paladin smite: 10 damage for 1st level spell, +5 damage per spell level above
spell damage(not smite) is still chaotic and it's rolled.
6. saving throws removed, return to 4E where everything is an attack.
7. Short rest is SHORT!, one minute long. more or less you will have it after every battle, balance around that.
or removal of short rests completely.
8. healing made reliable, Cure, Healing word, restoration, Heal, combined into single spell combined into single spell.
Heal.
1st level spell.
Bonus action,
range 60ft
you heal target for 15 HP.
you can split the healing between target and yourself.
reduce healing by 25HP to remove Disease, Blinded, Deafened, Poisoned or Paralyzed condition from one target of the spell.
25HP per condition
upcasting:
+10 HP per spell level, +1 target withing 60ft per spell level, amount stays the same, you can just split the healing between more targets.
Life cleric: increase HP pool of Heal spell by +3HP per spell level.
Here's the scenario. For whatever reason perhaps via Genie you are put in charge of D&D 2024 release. Bit of roleplaying here there's 3 different criteria I'm asking you to design. You don't need to design actually you're the boss order the peons about.
Assume you have a decent budget and you have to produce 1-3 core books. That's all you get though. Pagecount can go as high as 5.5. No you can't rerelease your favorite editions entire line or a 10000 page book New product Otherwise go for it.
1. This edition is make the most money. What do you do?
For clarity, I will call this product "6e"/"6th Edition"/etc. rather than any variation of 5th Edition, because...yeah this is a new game, it's not gonna be backwards-compatible with 5e.
Pay only lip service to the grognards. Instead do extensive product research on what current 20-something and 30-something folks are interested in buying. Focus 85% of idea-creation on this research. The remaining 15% is to give enough of a grognard-appeasing veneer that they don't notice it isn't actually "for them" until it's too late and they're already hip-deep. It's not a stance I would take if you hadn't specifically said it MUST make the most money, because I consider it immoral to deceive your customers like that.
Hire a reputable software company to design a slick, feature-rich, content-rich 2D and 3D VTT, which must be ready on release, and not a day later. Support for using past editions with the VTT--oldest first--will be a promised update if sufficient subscriber count is reached.
Develop robust rules for things D&D has long lacked: novice levels, incremental advancement, true quick-start rules, lite battles (what I call "skirmishes"), etc. Further, consider restricting the initial publication to only the first ~10 levels, so that we can include more classes and more diversity. Most campaigns never reach past level 10-12 anyway, so levels 11-20 could be published as separate book(s).
Rigorously playtest. I'm talking spending at least 25% of the overall budget JUST on getting lots and lots and LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of playtesting done. We don't publish rules we don't have playtesting for, basically.
Reach out to major youth-/"new adult"-demographic entertainment and media things to develop, as much as possible, a genuine grassroots campaign. It's kind of trite, but Fortnite is (or at least was) sort of the go-to youth-facing collaboration option. Collab with as many people as will have us. LOTS of the people who work on these projects, at least in the US, are people who played some form of D&D at some point in the past, so collaborations shouldn't be too difficult to develop.
Just as rigorously as the playtesting, rigorously test the design and layout. Make sure it has the look and feel of D&D to grognards, even if it's entirely opposite to their mechanical preferences.
Something that only has to appeal to me would not be the edition that makes the most money. I think this is sort of a general truism, so it's weird that you open with "you HAVE to make THE MOST MONEY EVER", and then follow it with "but y'know do whatever you want mang it's only for you".
However, something designed specifically to make money could still sneak in my preferences, Trojan Horse style. Because at this point I'm about 90% convinced that how the books LOOK and what the prose READS like are just flat-out more important for early success than whether the game itself is constructed well or poorly. Appearance matters more than reality--not that reality doesn't matter at all, but people will champion something that looks right but plays wrong far more than something that looks wrong but plays right.
The rules themselves would be a hybrid of 3e, 4e, 5e (but I repeat myself), and 13th Age. 4e would provide the backbone and the overall structure, but more of the obfuscation from 3e and 5e would be present (again, because perception > reality), albeit with some things genuinely ported in from those two, usually through the lens of 13th Age (since it was designed by some leading designers of 3e and 4e!) An emphasis on avoiding complexity unless it serves a clear, beneficial function wouldn't hurt, but I am leery of simplicity solely for simplicity's sake, as I've seen too many computer games move in that direction and piss fans off as a consequence.
The aforementioned extensive marketing research might turn up new class archetypes, but honestly I don't really expect it to. There are only about 25 mainline class concepts in the general fantasy milieu that D&D carves out, and D&D is already covering around half of those archetypes (some, notably, that D&D itself created, such as the specific weird idiosyncrasies of a "Cleric" as opposed to any other way a priestly character might become an adventurer.) Most ideas folks could posit would either work much better as a subclass for one of the below classes, or as some kind of add-on option, such as an alternate spell list or feat tree.
I have articulated these class-fantasy archetypes before, but if folks would like them, I'll spoilerblock them here.
First, the ones already present in 5th edition, in alphabetical order.
Artificer, the engineer-as-magician, with shades of other professional fields (blacksmith, surgeon, sapper, etc.), where craft-ken is magic
Barbarian, the warrior-of-passion, whether it be warp-spasms or altered states of consciousness or spirit-indwelling.
Bard, the artist-as-magician, whether that art be music, dance, oratory, fencing, whatever--the magic of the fine and performing arts.
Cleric, the devotee-as-magician, servant and shepherd both, remembering that a shepherd's crook was both tool and weapon.
Druid, (these days) merging shapeshifter-as-magician and geomancer-as-magician, calling on the magic of land and beast.
Fighter, the warrior-of-skill, who transcends the limits of IRL mundane soldiers through grit and tenacity.
Monk, the warrior-of-discipline, who transcends limits through enlightenment and practiced form, often semi-spiritual in nature.
Paladin, the warrior-of-devotion, power manifest through purity, both in keeping promises and in inspiring others by their example.
Ranger, the warrior-of-the-hunt, who straddles the line between man and beast, city and wilderness, tools and nature.
Rogue, the warrior-of-trickery, who knows the ways of not being struck or spotted, and of striking and seeing, of locks and keys.
Sorcerer, the inheritor-as-magician, who has magic power not because it was sought, but because it is part of who they are.
Warlock, the bargainer-as-magician, who represents the power of Faustian bargains and clever swindlers cheating evil powers.
Wizard, the scientist-as-magician, who represents pure knowledge unlocking ultimate power, the deep secrets of reality.
Second, those I consider to be missing, in (loose) order of how likely I think they are to actually get implemented.
Assassin, the warrior-of-shadow, whose skill with all the subtle ways to stalk (and un-alive) someone transcends mortal limits.
Warlord, the warrior-of-tactics, who transcends limits by cooperating with others rather than purely through her own mettle.
Swordmage, the warrior-as-magician, for whom swordplay is magic, and magic is swordplay (or other weapons), one and inseparable.
Shaman, the spiritualist-as-magician, who straddles the line between material and spirit, the bridge connecting these realms.
Psion (etc.), the telepath-as-magician, who draws on ESP, the paranormal, occult "science" etc. to bend the rules of reality in their favor.
Alchemist, the chemist-as-magician, who uses magical ingredients and concoctions to control the world...or themselves.
Avenger, the warrior-of-zeal, whose absolute focus is both shield and sword against their enemies, who executes the turncoat apostate.
Warden, the warrior-of-the-land, who wears Nature's power like a cloak, and wreaks Her wrath where he walks.
Summoner, the overseer-as-magician, whose magic lies in getting other beings to use magic for her.
Invoker, the emissary-as-magician, who calls down disaster upon the foes of the faith, Elijah calling fire down against the altar of Baal.
"Machinist" (not my fav name), the warrior-of-technology, who uses guns, machines, and tools to overcome their foes.
Rigorously playtest. I'm talking spending at least 25% of the overall budget JUST on getting lots and lots and LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of playtesting done. We don't publish rules we don't have playtesting for, basically.
or just one class with endless combination of features with 10-20 suggested kits of preselected feats that will describe "legacy" classes for people that do not want or need system mastery.
Spells Prepared is equal to Casting Score/3 plus level. (AKA 15 INT level 1 wizard can prep 6 spells)
Cantrips must be prepared
Infusions must be prepared
Spell DCs are Casting Score
Focus points is WIS score + Level (costs adjusted)
Sorcery points is CHA score + Level (costs adjusted)
Lay on Hands is CHA score x 5
1st level is MAX HD
Only warrior classes and monsters add Con Mod to HP
Short rests are 10 minutes and heal CON Score.
Drinking a potion is an Action but gives MAX dice healing
Drinking a potion and rolling the dice is a limited free action
No bonus actions
Additional actions included in spells. Ie Healing Word is an action but lets you Attack or Dodge. Hunter's Mark lets you attack when cast and swapping marks are free.
TWF is a Weapon Mastery
Warriors get Weapon Masteries and Armor Masteries
A few simple ones like +2 damage or +1 AC
Replaces Fighting styles
Concentration is removed. Replaced by Endurance (CON) check vs damage taken
Each skill has 2 named uses with DCa
For example DC 15 Medicine (INT) check doubles healing when pouring a healing potion on a body.
Saving throws changed
Fortitude (STR)
Reflex (DEX)
Death (CON)
Confusion (INT)
Will (WIS)
Magic (CHA)
Engage action replaces Opportunity attacks and flanking. Engaged foes can't move away without taking a automatic hit or taking Disengage action. Engaged foes are flanked if double Engaged.
Monsters hit HARDER
Monsters have unique (broken) spells that PCs can't get without barter or favors.
Certainly. You should still have focus-group type playtesting, where the point is to make sure people really do enjoy playing the game. But the bulk of the playtesting should be done by people who are actively trying to break your game. That is the single best way to avoid the game ending up broken. It will still have broken elements--no game is perfect--but you'll do better than you would have.
or just one class with endless combination of features with 10-20 suggested kits of preselected feats that will describe "legacy" classes for people that do not want or need system mastery.
Personally, I think this is a design which only appeals to long-enfranchised, deeply-committed RPG players.
Basically, pure point-buy is AMAZING when you already know pretty much what you want to do, and you just need to carefully assemble the pieces to make some specific thing.
Pure point-buy is HORRIBLE if you're a brand-new user who has no idea what's good and what's not, what's beneficial and what's harmful, etc., etc.* If we're trying to make this the most profitable D&D of all time, we're going to need to focus on that. Plus...well. When absolutely everything can be combined with absolutely everything else, combinatoric explosion means you'll never truly playtest more than the tiniest slice of your game. So playtesting is...not quite "worthless" but not nearly as helpful under this design paradigm.
I could certainly see publishing (after, say, 5-6 years) a "build your own stuff!" book that lays out the design philosophy and why the designers chose the things they chose. Then, it would lay out rules for doing as you describe, absolute freeform classless design with a "buy-features-for-XP" kind of system (with "level" probably still existing as "how much XP have you spent?" and being used to gate off features). The whole thing plastered with "THIS HAS NOT BEEN TESTED" labels so anyone who gets into it understands that they have entered Terra Incognita and they will not be getting help from the higher-ups.
*And this can even happen to someone who is long-enfranchised with one game but brand-new to another. I ended up feeling extremely lost, confused, and frustrated when learning both W:TA and SR5, because those are both pure point-buy systems (or, at least, the latter is often done as pure point-buy, though the default rule is technically chunky point-buy). When literally ᴇ ᴠ ᴇ ʀ ʏ ᴛ ʜ ɪ ɴ ɢ is an option you can pick up, it becomes really hard to make any choices at all, between analysis paralysis and fear of ruining your character with a bad choice. It's only once you have a solid knowledge base that such absolute freedom becomes an asset rather than a liability.
If I was doing this, I would primarily be aiming at creating an unholy fusion of the best elements of 4E and OSR, which might not seem like a natural mix, but I think it's very doable. Various goals/design points:
1) More HP at level 1, but linear HP gain would be smaller, and basically cease at L10.
2) Spells should be able to fail, including non-combat spells - when I was suggesting this repeatedly years ago, it was kind of a wild and wooly idea that really only Dungeon World subscribed to, but since has become pretty popular, with Shadowdark doing it, and Mike Mearls' upcoming RPG doing it, and so on.
3) Significant rebalance/redesign of magic, with an eye to also making the magic seem more, well, magical, and less like science fantasy stuff (which naturally many Wizard spells seem like given they're derived from a science fantasy source!). Psionics introduced in the PHB, doesn't use spells, but has a fairly simple system only requiring say, six to eight pages at most (can always be expanded later).
4) A new "default setting" that wasn't the FR. Definitely Points of Light, learning from the Nentir Vale, but also looking at what trends in fantasy are popular at the time. It doesn't have to be an immortal and perfect setting - none ever is - but it should be in and of itself intriguing. It's actually kind of cool if a setting says something about the time it was written, so long as what it says isn't bigoted!
5) More fleshed-out actual options for DMs - the 2014 DMG has some of this and the 2024 has very little (as I understand it), but I think it's very important that, even if I'm designing primarily for what I like, I create a game that people can customize for their own games, and actually support this mechanically. It doesn't have to be for everyone, but it should have a lot of options.
6) Solve a bunch of D&D's long-term problems. I can't think of most of these off the top of my head, but one example is not being able to sneak up on people and take them out. It's an absolute staple of all fiction involving conflict, with no exceptions, it's a real thing, and it happens constantly in fantasy fiction specifically. That's it's basically impossible in any edition of D&D unless you're a Thief/Rogue and the enemy is a wimp is ridiculous. Worlds Without Number basically solved this, so we can rip them off.
7) Kill Bonus Actions (this seems pretty popular) and find a better way to handle stuff like that, probably more exception-based (and just rarer). Same goes for Reactions.
8) Get rid of saving throws as a general thing everyone has, going to 4E-style defences. Saving throws them become this special thing certain classes/species/etc. get against certain things, even if their defences got hit. Which I think would be a lot cooler.
9) Insane art budget and production values - And make sure the art appeals to the current, actual audience and draws new people in. In the core books, the styles should be pretty consistent.
10) Really strong digital tools that exist from day 1 of the edition, and support both players AND DMs. Ideally including an easy-to-use and decent-looking 2D VTT which runs in a browser so has no difficulty working across tons of devices.
11) As others have said, playtest aggressively and in depth. Do NOT rush the game out in like 18 months as 4E and 5E both basically did. If it takes three years to get it right, it takes three years.
12) Reconsider which classes need to be in the PHB. I'm not saying I'd definitely remove or replace any, but I'd probably add Psion at a minimum.
13) Huge reworks of most classes. Fundamentally take a more 4E approach to classes - i.e. there can be more than one version of a class, and they share abilities etc., but they don't have to be the same. Probably eliminate subclasses by doing this. Ranger, Fighter and Barbarian need to hold some sort of conference and sort out their identities, as do Sorcerer and Wizard. I think Ranger and Barbarian being merged would make a lot of sense, then you select abilities to make the wilderness warrior you want. Cleric would stop being single-god-specific by default, Druids would probably move away from shapeshifting as a default, and more as an option.
Can't we just use the ability score to get the modifier and then...erase the ability score?
Other than to get the modifier from it, what do we use the actual ability score for afterwards?
This is one of many sentiments that I've never been able to understand.
If i was the type to start a thread, this would be a good one to start.
Nothing to see here....carry on.
