D&D 5E 20th level Sorcerer vs the world

[iHamer]

And as far as actually beating this sorcerer just a level 20 way of the open hand monk with winged boots (so you cant fly away). A single use of Quivering Palm against your low Con and low AC with the monks high saving throw at 20th level pretty much means lights out for most characters.

Quivering Palm​

At 17th level, you gain the ability to set up lethal vibrations in someone’s body. When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike, you can spend 3 ki points to start these imperceptible vibrations, which last for a number of days equal to your monk level. The vibrations are harmless unless you use your action to end them. To do so, you and the target must be on the same plane of existence. When you use this action, the creature must make a Constitution saving throw. If it fails, it is reduced to 0 Hit Points. If it succeeds, it takes 10d10 necrotic damage.

You can have only one creature under the Effect of this feature at a time. You can choose to end the vibrations harmlessly without using an action.

 

[delph]

Wisdom save +0? Bestow curse from 17 lvl caster with maxed spellcasting ability - DC21. can't hit over. And you will fail forever. that mean you will never do anything.

 

[Thrashingdragon]

1) Wizard cast simulacrum

2) Rest

3) Scout the real sorcerer while under invisibility, and using either investgation checks to see who is disguised, or just observe who get cast warding bond on them every 2 hours

4) get abit away behind something cast greater invisibility

5) cast Crown of stars

6) Dimension door, or teleport within 120 feet of target ( preferbly dimension door, so you can use teleport to escape )

7) cast 2 Meteor swarms with your actions, and 2 star motes should be about enough damage ?

the warding bond simulacrum would most likely, die in the frist swarm due 140 damage, and 75 from the original being hit, so thats no more warding bond

the original would take 75 from the frist swarm, then 26 from a star mote, then 140 from the second swarm, and 26 from the second star mote, for a total of 267 damage, of course this is subject to failing saves, and attacks hitting, but in about 54% of the cases it would work

( Warning this post might include erroneous math )

 

[iHamer]

Overall sorcerers are very powerful but any class at lvl 20 can beat them with a semi competent build. The issue with your build however comes down to a few factors.

1. Limited understanding on spell nuances, spellcasting, and metamagic limitations. (I make these mistakes all the time which is why I always go and read the rules if I am not sure on a particular ruling or ask the game devs).

2. Most likely using the rulings given to you and allowed by your DM (nothing wrong with this in the slightest until you ask people to come up with an in rules build that can beat your character that is played outside of RAW). Even Matt Mercer makes mistakes on the game rules more often than we all would like to admit but he does it for the sake of his players and the joy found in the game. That said if you want to ask a honest question about who can beat who, you need to abide by the RAW game rules that everyone else is using and not a build that your DM let you get away with.

3. Idk just throw a lvl 20 moon druid at him and have the druid use his bonus action on every turn to turn into a mammoth with 129 HP and using his action to eat bananas until you run out of spell slots or do a rain dance(base druids can cast spells while wild shaped at level 18 and can wild shape an unlimited number of times per day at 20th level, moon druid allowing this as a bonus action on each turn).

4. Most OP builds are only OP in a vacuum and rely on the gimmick of being lvl 20 to work (most level 20 games force the DM to use lax rulings just so the combat doesn't get more bogged down than it already is because taking 10 minutes per turn is kind of not fun for the rest of the people at the table).

Lastly I hope this didn't come off as your build is dumb and it smells of elderberries, just some observations about the question you were asking as the start of this thread of which to answer the question who can beat this sorcerer the simple answer is just about any class that gets decent rolls and is played by a good and smart player (excluding Mystics, cuz they aint real no more).

 

[nogray]

This post is broken into three parts: rules questions, verisimilitude questions, and questions related to the challenge the OP presents. It got long, so I spoiler-boxed them.

Rules questions and possible errors:

Spoiler

How does the (Wished) Simulacrum have a 9th level spell slot for the summons or other claimed uses? Unless I am mistaken, it duplicates you after you cast the spell (i.e. you with an expended 9th-level spell slot), and it can't recover any spell slots.

Every night, as soon as your character sleeps, your Contingency goes off, so you might want to reword it. Unless you can cast spells while you are asleep.

With respect to the Warding Bond, each time you take damage, the sim also takes the damage. It has fewer hit points than you do and is not as easy to heal, so it will reach zero hp about the time you reach your "bloodied" value (to borrow a 4e term). That's assuming that the sim isn't directly eliminated through direct damage or AoE. The rest of your HP shouldn't be counting the resistance. Later (post-magen-creation) castings of Simulacrum will have even fewer hit points, making it (and you) even more vulnerable.

Each of your Summon Celestial minions requires a verbal order from you to attack. The intent seems to be that is a requirement each round. This isn't a knock on actions, as the rules state that there is no action cost to these orders, but it does open up a vulnerability. A silence spell that lands on you "prevents" them from attacking. (It also weakens your Seeming; see below.) Of course, if you take the Planar Binding wording to supersede the Summon Celestial wording, then they are just as likely to become "hostile" and twist the wording of any command given as is any other planar-bound summon.

You seem to want to give yourself unlimited 9th-level spell slots. Wished Magen (that die pretty easily as you conquer the world, permanently draining your hit points unless you Wish the lost hit points back, which will eventually cost you the ability to ever cast Wish again), Wished Simulacrum (that seem to have another 9th-level spell slot despite you having used yours in the creation of them and that will "expire" in usefulness pretty quickly, as they can never regain the spell slots they are expending to keep your Warding Bond active and summoning things in combat with their one (ever) 6th - 8th level slots), Wished Mind Blank, and upcasted Summon Celestials.

On poor verisimilitude, if that is the right word:

Spoiler

The faux mirror image is kind of useless once the action starts. At that point, the different "heavenly beings" begin to take very different actions, making it easy to tell one from the other(s). The Subtle Spell that makes you cast (with impunity) rather makes you stand out more, in that case. (Which one is the Sorcerer? Well, it's not that one -- it just shot a radiant-damage bow, and those just Magen-zapped with static discharge; must be one of those two that just spaced out for a sec before the Insect Plague appeared.) That and most of the creatures/minions seem to require you to verbally direct them what to do, (the sim, the magen, the planar-bound, though some might have preset orders), so the "real you" is easy to discern as the one giving all the orders.

Warding Bond has a duration of 1 hour. Extending it means the simulacrum has to cast it less often, I suppose, but it would still not have the spell up all the time. Under what conditions would you have the sim cast Warding Bond? Since it can't recover spell slots, you'll have to re-Simulacrum every time it runs out of spell slots. That reduces the number of days you have 9th-level slots available at all. (I think the sim can rest and regain sorcery points, which can then be used to make some slots, but that is bordering on the "coffee-lock" strategy, isn't it?)

On the challenge presented:

Spoiler

As to the challenge, I am not sure what your intent is. Is it just a challenge to make a character that can kill yours with the parameters you have delineated (One v one, etc.)? If so, you would need to specify more parameters. Most especially, how many days of preparation are you thinking of your character (and thus anyone else) using? I mean if it's "wake up alone from a long rest in an arena and the fight is happening right now," that's a different question from, "this character does these things regularly over time; at some point, the opponents become aware of one another and decide to eliminate each other," isn't it?

The weaknesses of your character: low perception and soft stats, no safe haven or reliable long-distance travel, no information-gathering. Barring an arena situation, this suggests a stealth kill. In any world ran with some degree of a hat tipped towards verisimilitude, I'm generally unconvinced that your character could match the Wizard (from the referenced thread) for general applicability and conquering, nor am I convinced that you and your army could match one raised by the wizard.

In an arena situation, the duration of prep would be a key point, as would the arena layout. From a start where you are totally alone with nothing but your regular (mundane) gear, how many days of prep? or how many hours? or rounds? (Days of prep favors casters, so I would imagine you would want at least a few in an arena set-up.) What sort of arena and start would you imagine?

What are the actual parameters of the engagement?

 

[Ashrym]

At people claiming wish cannot be twinned -- it can, but it depends on how it's being applied. That same caveat goes to people who claim wish can be twinned. ;-)

As for the build, it's too susceptible to stealthy builds and weak save or suck attacks.

Picking up expertise in stealth, invisibility, and true seeing makes for a strong surprise attack at the correct target argument.

Bards have the spells and skills to pull this off at 11th level. 13th level wizards who use the skill expert feat for stealth have that 3rd feat at 12th level and spell DC bump at 13th level to use this tactic. A 14th level lore bard can hit the surprise attack with a cranked initiative for a second turn before before the sorc can act.

17th level casters surprise attacking with true polymorph is a solid win most of the time on that strategy.

 

[Hohige]

Can you stay at 660ft range against say an Aaracockra Monk? Will the pursuit draw you out of that crowd you claim gives us a 0.016% chance to target you?I

P.S. Why does you having 717 HP make Battlemasters or Warlocks dead?

A monk is not able to beat a Sorcerer.
In a turn or monk is dead, 260 damage at 660ft per turn.
Can you survive 1,000 damage per turn with the Create Magen?
The Sorcerer is perfectly disguised and has 60 creatures disguised magically and physically.

The chance to survive is 0.

 

[Hohige]

halfling 18th level shadow monk, 2nd level rogue beats him pretty easily. Stay 121ft away and hide very round.

Kill off the duplicates one-by-one then either kill him or wait for him to sleep and attack him in his sleep.

feats for this build: fey touched, shadow touched, mage slayer, skulker.

1) It can't fly
2) You can't bypass the "Improved Mirror Image"
3) The Sorcerer damages is over 1000 damage per turn.
4) Multiclass are disallowed.

 

[Hohige]

Firstly this is a very interesting build. But it is built on a number of false assumptions.

Firstly addressing your OP health pool, you are assuming you can cast Warding Bond on yourself. Which you cannot. It can be cast on you from someone else (defeating the purpose of a 1v1)
Secondly meta magic twinned spell does not work on spells with a range of self, of which Wish has a range of self (you are not casting Simulacrum by using Wish, you are using Wish to duplicate its effects, therefore you are trying to twin Wish which cannot be done.)

Dont get it mixed up, this is still a powerful character, but only outside of the scope of both the rules and timeframe given for beating this character (casting this many spell and features in a 1v1 fight most likely won't save you unless you have time to prepare, which kind of defeats the purpose of a 1v1 battle. Given enough time to prepare any character regardless of mechanical strength can become very powerful, its why kings are so hard to defeat even if they are mere mortals).

1) Here are several mistakes my friend. Warding Bond is casted by the Simulacrum. The Simulacrum's Warding Bond can protect the Sorcerer without any problem.

2) About Twinned Simulacrum (Wished
The Sage Advice Compendium, page 6 disagrees of you.

Can my sorcerer use Twinned Spell on a spell duplicated by the casting of a wish spell? And if so, how many sorcery points does it cost? Yes, you can. It costs the number of sorcery points appropriate for the level of the spell you’re duplicating.

 

[Hohige]

And as far as actually beating this sorcerer just a level 20 way of the open hand monk with winged boots (so you cant fly away). A single use of Quivering Palm against your low Con and low AC with the monks high saving throw at 20th level pretty much means lights out for most characters.

Quivering Palm​

At 17th level, you gain the ability to set up lethal vibrations in someone’s body. When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike, you can spend 3 ki points to start these imperceptible vibrations, which last for a number of days equal to your monk level. The vibrations are harmless unless you use your action to end them. To do so, you and the target must be on the same plane of existence. When you use this action, the creature must make a Constitution saving throw. If it fails, it is reduced to 0 Hit Points. If it succeeds, it takes 10d10 necrotic damage.

You can have only one creature under the Effect of this feature at a time. You can choose to end the vibrations harmlessly without using an action.

1) Magical Items are disallowed, the monk can't fly.

2) The Monk can't bypass the Sorcerer's Improved Mirror image (More than 60 clones)

3) The Sorcerer defeats the monk with one turn with more than 260 damage at 660ft. And 1000 damage for his Magen Minions.

4) The Sorcerer has +9 con save.