D&D (2024) 4/26 Playtest: The Fighter

[Azzy]

I'm actually very surprised by how against the idea of "golf-bag fighter" is in this community. I thought that was the default of the fighter anyways.

You keep a greatsword for maximum damage, a longsword and shield if your goal is to have extra AC, a bow/xbow for ranged situations, a lance (if you have a reliable mount), a net because why not, and a few holy waters, acids, and alchemist's fires.

Having even more weapons with even more unique properties and uses really builds into the fantasy I have of "general master of weapons."

This is not my experience. Fighters tend to have their primary weapon (whether it be melee or ranged) and then a secondary weapon (that depends on the primary weapon). Maybe a tertiary weapon (that they never use). This typically reinforced by either having a magic weapon (which becomes your primary weapon until you find a better one) and, depending on the edition, Weapon Mastery (BECMI/RC and OneD&D), limited Weapon Proficiencies (AD&D), Weapon Specialization (AD&D and 3e/3.5e). This is partially mitigated by different monsters having different resistances, immunities, and vulnerabilities, but not I've still not encountered nor personally expeienced this "golf-bag fighter" phenomena.

 

[Minigiant]

Seems really odd that talking twice as fast makes you more persuasive, but sure. Why not add the influence and study actions.
Also the help action.

Mainly they just need to keep spell casting out.

I mean.

Ain't it a jock trope to wait until the last minute then grind study dem books?

 

[NaturalZero]

I'm actually very surprised by how against the idea of "golf-bag fighter" is in this community. I thought that was the default of the fighter anyways.

You keep a greatsword for maximum damage, a longsword and shield if your goal is to have extra AC, a bow/xbow for ranged situations, a lance (if you have a reliable mount), a net because why not, and a few holy waters, acids, and alchemist's fires.

Having even more weapons with even more unique properties and uses really builds into the fantasy I have of "general master of weapons."

I'm playing a level 17 fighter in a long-term campaign. I've had a magic weapon that becomes any weapon as a bonus action since around level 10 and I've probably switched it from greatsword to glaive twice in 7 levels in order to get a little reach. It's just not worth giving up Great Weapon Master to make it a longsword, especially since it takes a whole action to don a shield, and the +2 to AC often isn't worth it at high level. It's completely worthless to make it a longbow, because I'm a Str fighter with other things to invest in like Con and Int. I can literally access the entire suite of weapons in the game as a bonus action, but it's rarely every optimal to lose my feat investment and not deal maximum damage in order to end the fight.

In 5e, there's no mechanical incentive to switch weapons mid combat because big damage is how you win every fight if you're a weapon user. Adding masteries might be a thing that can change that, but stacking masteries on the one weapon that deals the most damage is probably going to be the best solution once again. The battle master worked well by having things like pushing and tripping moves that worked with any weapon, because that's how most weapon users actually play the game.

 

[Bluenose]

The Barbarian is hilariously getting (Str score as a minimum result) for 1/3 of the skills in the game (including Stealth, Intimidate and Perception) simply by raging first (which now lasts for 10 minutes and can be extended as a bonus action).

So your Barb is spamming guaranteed Ability check results of at least 18+ on Stealth, Perception, Intimidate, Survival etc skills more or less at will.

Fighter gets to be proficient in Persuasion, if he wants to.

Not quite the same for mine.

I'm so angry I can see the invisible thief.

 

[Asisreo]

This is not my experience. Fighters tend to have their primary weapon (whether it be melee or ranged) and then a secondary weapon (that depends on the primary weapon). Maybe a tertiary weapon (that they never use). This typically reinforced by either having a magic weapon (which becomes your primary weapon until you find a better one) and, depending on the edition, Weapon Mastery (BECMI/RC and OneD&D), limited Weapon Proficiencies (AD&D), Weapon Specialization (AD&D and 3e/3.5e). This is partially mitigated by different monsters having different resistances, immunities, and vulnerabilities, but not I've still not encountered nor personally expeienced this "golf-bag fighter" phenomena.

I'm playing a level 17 fighter in a long-term campaign. I've had a magic weapon that becomes any weapon as a bonus action since around level 10 and I've probably switched it from greatsword to glaive twice in 7 levels in order to get a little reach. It's just not worth giving up Great Weapon Master to make it a longsword, especially since it takes a whole action to don a shield, and the +2 to AC often isn't worth it at high level. It's completely worthless to make it a longbow, because I'm a Str fighter with other things to invest in like Con and Int. I can literally access the entire suite of weapons in the game as a bonus action, but it's rarely every optimal to lose my feat investment and not deal maximum damage in order to end the fight.

In 5e, there's no mechanical incentive to switch weapons mid combat because big damage is how you win every fight if you're a weapon user. Adding masteries might be a thing that can change that, but stacking masteries on the one weapon that deals the most damage is probably going to be the best solution once again. The battle master worked well by having things like pushing and tripping moves that worked with any weapon, because that's how most weapon users actually play the game.

Yeah, this really is strange. There has been a fighter in all the games I DM and in every one, the fighter had several.

Heck, even now the fighter in my current group has two +1 handaxes for dual wielding. A dragonbane lance. A bogstandard longbow. And a Javelin of Lightning.

They don't swap between them on a turn-by-turn basis, but they do decide which they're going to use on a combat-by-combat scale.

I guess to me it doesn't make sense to not give yourself the option of other strategies when you may need it. You wouldn't forgo the polymorph spell entirely just because you had the conjure animals spell on a wizard would you?

 

[Gladius Legis]

I'm actually very surprised by how against the idea of "golf-bag fighter" is in this community. I thought that was the default of the fighter anyways.

I'm not against the idea as one of many options. I AM against it being far and away the optimised way to play a martial.

 

[kapars]

I posted earlier about what I think mechanical improvements would look like but I think part of what needs to be addressed in these designs is the narrative. Which literary characters are Fighters supposed to represent? Which characters represent a Fighter at Tier 3 and 4? Why would a Wizard in the same world want to keep this character nearby?

I think a struggle is that a lot of the literary touch points for Fighters are in far more low magic settings but 5e as it stands is probably in the higher levels of high magic. What stories are those and what do the fighters look like in those stories if they are around at all?

If we cannot answer this and the community will not accept a reduction in spellcaster power just delete the Warrior group past a certain tier and move on.

No one is not going to feel feeble nudging smaller enemies around with “Push” when the Wizard turns into a dragon.

 

[mellored]

I'm not against the idea as one of many options. I AM against it being far and away the optimised way to play a martial.

Fighter 13 can use the same weapon with different masteries. So less swapping needed.

And barbarians max out at 4.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Fighter 13 can use the same weapon with different masteries. So less swapping needed.

Which actually feels closer to the way Weapon Mastery should work by default.

 

[Shardstone]

Honestly, the only changes I want are to bake the Warlord into the Fighter. Let me have a single Fighter class that can either use weapons themselves or command someone else to use their weapons. Let someone make an attack with a weapon and they can use the weapon mastery, even if they don't have it, because of fighter's order and precise instruction. That kind of thing would make the Fighter IMO tied for my favorite class.