D&D 5E 5e has everything it needs for Dark Sun

[rgoodbb]

I avoid mechanics that overpower a character mechanically, in exchange for a narrative "punishment".

I get that, but I think the narrative punishment could be fantastic for a game.

 

[Yaarel]

I get that, but I think the narrative punishment could be fantastic for a game.

Heh, I like narrative punishment! Just not linking it to mechanics.

Compare alignment. Great for narrative. Broken for mechanics.



If a Wizard player goes thru the pain of not casting the highest slot spell, so as to avoid destroying the environment, then the player can vivid feel how necessary discipline is to use wizardry ethically, and how troublesome wizardry. And the player can totally understand the temptation why other Wizard characters are like, "F- it! I am using my wizardry!"

A DM should pretty much be raining Inspiration rewards on any player who is willing to play an environmentalist Wizard.

 

[rgoodbb]

Heh, I like narrative punishment! Just not linking it to mechanics.

Compare alignment. Great for narrative. Broken for mechanics.

OK. So I was offering an alternative mainly because a preserver PC with your rule would never be allowed (in their mind) to cast their top spells. That is extremely underpowering a character mechanically for doing the right thing.

It's interesting isn't it that there are multiple different ways to do Preserving/Defiling.

 

[Yaarel]

OK. So I was offering an alternative mainly because a preserver PC with your rule would never be allowed (in their mind) to cast their top spells. That is extremely underpowering a character mechanically for doing the right thing.

It's interesting isn't it that there are multiple different ways to do Preserving/Defiling.

In Darksun, wizardry is a problem. Ethical wizardy is difficult, and those who do it are rare, in game.

Balancewise, the player can probaby mitigate the highest-slot taboo by splitting the highest slot into smaller slots, then casting those.

Also, because of the mechanical punishment that the player is volunteering for, it seems reasonable to come up with some kind mechanical reward to help balance the character. Maybe the preserver Wizards can create water, including its elemental magical properties of life-giving and healing?

 

[Wyldekarde]

I do agree that in general, 5E, as it stands, has most of the rules needed to make it work. They will need a campaign book of course since that's just too much stuff to convert for the average DM. With regards to Psionics, the simplest solution is to just make it a subclass of the sorcerer. You can just say that this version of the sorcerer uses the Spell Point variant rules to simulate Psionic Points. For the defilers, just say that for every level of spell they cast, they deal 1d4 or 1d6 damage to the area they are in with a base 5 ft for level 1 spells and increasing by 5 ft for every spell level after. (ex. 3rd level spell equal dealing 3d4 or 3d6 damage to everything within 15ft of the caster, including allies) This somewhat captures the essence of what defilers were without needing to create entirely new rules to handle them. What's most important I think is capturing the essence rather than the rules as it was written before.

 

[Weiley31]

Then we already have a number of psionic subclasses:

• College of Whispers Bard
• Psychic Warrior Fighter
• Soulknife Rogue
• Aberrant Mind Sorcerer
• Great Old One Warlock (possibly)
• Circle of Dreams Druid (possibly)
• Fey Wanderer Ranger (debatably) - and there's a case for the Swarmkeeper Ranger to keep their swarm psionically

And thanks to ph0rk in another thread, he posted an article that introduced/revealed another one to add to that list: The Hexblade Warlock. wait what???? Apparently, its origins as a Psionics/Psychic Warrior class was in Mike Mearls Happy Hour*

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And it has been mentioned a number of times by people that the Warlock chassis, especially its Invocations, could fit the bill in regards to psi-like abilities or what not. I mean heck, a Psi-Hexblade would do the same exact thing as the regular Hexblade does with its CHA modifier adding to its Attack/Damage rolls, except swap out the CHA modifier with INT instead. I mean, heck, you could have the use of the Invocations powered by the Psionic Energy Dice mechanic that the is used by the three current official 5E Psionics classes.

Also don't forget the Way of the Soul Knife monk Subclass.

 

[rgoodbb]

In Darksun, wizardry is a problem. Ethical wizardy is difficult, and those who do it are rare, in game.

Balancewise, the player can probaby mitigate the highest-slot taboo by splitting the highest slot into smaller slots, then casting those.

Also, because of the mechanical punishment that the player is volunteering for, it seems reasonable to come up with some kind mechanical reward to help balance the character. Maybe the preserver Wizards can create water, including its elemental magical properties of life-giving and healing?

That seems like a fair compensation.

 

[tetrasodium]

There seems to be mutual envy. I tend to play casters, and envy the damage dealing of noncasters. But I often hear those who tend to play noncasters envy the game-changing abilities of the casters.

Obviously some classes are more powerful than others. If it is possible to "prove" that high-level noncasters are much more powerful than high-level casters, I have no qualms about updating the casters to improve balance between the classes. But I want to be cautious and certain that changes are necessary.

Actually no I was speaking from experience as a GM. Both in home games and with many many AL tables it becomes a larger and larger problem

 

[Yaarel]

Actually no I was speaking from experience as a GM. Both in home games and with many many AL tables it becomes a larger and larger problem

I trust your experience. I am unsure how to quantify it. Googling, I couldnt find any 5e chatter about high level fullcasters being underpowered, not in recent years anyway. Likely, not enough players are playing the highest levels for the community to get a sense of where the class imbalances are. The potential imbalances wouldnt really start until, say, level 13 and higher.

Of course, there are many theoretical builds for the highest levels, but I doubt this theory craft is representative of the context of high-level team dynamics.

There seems a consensus that unlike earlier editions, a 5e caster cannot go it alone. Because of concentration and fewer slots, the caster can only do one amazing thing at a time. Without a team, the caster is forced to multitask and flail. These kinds of discussions mention that noncasters also cannot go it alone, and need casters in their team.

I suspect 5e hit the caster with a nerf bat too hard, with the intention to end "quadradic Wizard, linear Fighter", once and for all. It might even be that 5e has now become "quadratic Fighter, linear Wizard", such as the Fighter multiple attacks multiplying increasingly high damage attacks.

DMs and players who are noticing class imbalances in their own high level campaigns need to start getting a handle on what exactly is happening, before a fix can become possible.

 

[Weiley31]

Well 5E did make it a thing that you couldn't buff yourself into oblivion to the point where CODzillas and all could take on the DM in single handed combat and emerge absolute victorious. So it's all a balancing act: The Casters are the Weapons of Mass destruction and the Martials are the blocker/interceptors when they aren't hitting like a mac truck.

I wonder how things would be quite different if the Hit Dice of said casters and what not were upped. Would the Warlock/Forge Adept Artificer be the go to 5E Gish if suddenly they were rocking D10 HP ala the Fighter? How would things change for the Bladesinger wizard if they went from a D6 to a D8 HP progression? Where the sam goody would the Barbarian go if they broke past the D12 HP dice!?!?

Ironically, the 5E Iron Kingdom: Requiem book has a legit feat where it allows you to bump up your Hit Die by one whole level, thus allowing D10 Warlocks, D8 Wizards, and D12 Fighters.