D&D 5E 5e should develop more Defender role mechanics

[DeviousQuail]

The Cavalier in the Xanathar's Guide to Everything has some interesting options to play the Tank/Defender Role, though I've never seen them played at the table. Has anyone played a Cavalier character? How did those mechanics work during gameplay at the table?

The Cavalier in my current party is really good. Between Unwavering Mark, Warding Maneuver, and Hold the Line he excels at everything you'd want a tank to excel at. Hold the Line is almost broken when fighting certain monsters. We're playing Rise of Tiamat and his ability to stop a dragon from running reduces/takes away one of the most dangerous aspects of fighting a dragon. Other classes and subclasses have "tanking" abilities but the Cavalier's combination of ease and effectiveness is, imo, second to none.

The funny part for our group is that we also have a Paladin with the Protection FS and a Rune Knight with the cloud rune. I almost regret choosing War Magic over Divination for my wizard but then I remember my DM is a good person who doesn't deserve that much pain in his life.

To the OP, I miss the Swordmage as well, but I think 5e's current defender abilities are varied and effective. I wouldn't look to add more just for the sake of adding more. But if they did bring in a swordmage or warden I'd expect nothing less than some new defender abilities.

 

[Undrave]

The protection and Interception fighting styles; the Sentinel feat;

I feel like the biggest issue with those is that they all take up your ONE reaction. They're good options but you can't specialize in them by stacking multiple options effectively. If you use the Protection fighting style then you can't use Sentinel on the same turn... And as enemies start getting more attacks, Protection and Interception become worse and worse.

A Fighter subclass (Bodyguard?) that gained additional reactions would be pretty neat IMO.

I do agree that a teleporting Swordmage would be great. My preferred character type is a Gish frontliner/defender and so far nothing in 5e has got anything quite right for my preferences without multiclassing several things together. My most desired addition to 5e is a Swordmage with the right mix of Martial and Magic.

Maybe if they're lucky they'll give us some Spells to copy that feel... it's their solution to everything (Hello Hunter's Mark!) in this edition. A spell for the Paladin's Challenge Aura and some kind of Aegis for the Swordmage... Ideally, a PROPER Swordmage would be better, that's for sure.

I also think they could do a Warden as a Barbarian by giving them transformative rages. I know there's like a Ranger spell that's basically trying to reproduce the Warden but it's ridiculous to have a single spell try to be an entire CLASS! It at least deserves a subclass with build options (like Battlemaster level of options IMO).

 

[AtomicPope]

The Cavalier in the Xanathar's Guide to Everything has some interesting options to play the Tank/Defender Role, though I've never seen them played at the table. Has anyone played a Cavalier character? How did those mechanics work during gameplay at the table?

In my campaign (now 20th level with boons) one of the PCs is a Cavalier and the Unwavering Mark and Warding Maneuver work surprisingly well. The big problem I have with "marks" in general is the fighters pretty much always have the best AC in the group by a long shot. In 4e it was a paltry -2. Our epic Cavalier has AC27, and is pretty much nigh untouchable. If the marking feature of 4e went straight into 5e it would be useless. Without a reason to attack a tank anything less than a giant would go for everyone else in the party because the AC gap is massive, at 5 points lower is the next best. However, since Unwavering Mark grants disadvantage it usually means that even though I'm hitting someone else, my chances of scoring a critical hit are VERY low.

The Warding Maneuver is a high enough AC bonus to parry incoming attacks, and since it's a different mechanic it stacks with Unwavering Mark. BBEGs still square off with the Cavalier to fight him. The best part about their defender option Warding Maneuver is it works for themselves too. This gives us the impression of an epic duel. They can boost their own AC and gain resistance (half damage) to the attack, like parrying or blocking attacks. That also means a Cavalier can hunker down behind his shield and take half damage from things like a dragon's breath when he couldn't possibly make a DC 25 Dex save at 20th level. Or, tank the hit and use that on a softer party member who failed their save.

Hold the Line is nice but at this level a lot of monsters have reach, teleportation (we're in the Abyss), and flight. Vigilant Defender can get a little crazy. There was one fight when they were seaching a prison in the Abyss and the prison guard caught them. It called in a dozen other fiends came charging down the hallway, Minotaurs with a Demonic Boons from Mordenkainen's Tome. The Cavalier went nuts with his opportunity attacks. What made it "feel" like a defender is he would intentionally move in the way to stop the charging Minotaur fiends and with Hold the Line they couldn't just charge past him. What ended up happening is several Minotaurs got caught and stuck, creating like a wall of bodies. Others had to move far around him, dashing rather than charging, and wasting their movement in the process. It was really impressive. It made me consciously stop using demons that teleported since I saw how much fun a very tactical combat was for them.

If someone wants to play a "Defender" type fighter than this is the subclass to do it. WIthout a doubt, even if you were to only take 7 levels it works great. Warding Maneuver is a game changer.

 

[fearsomepirate]

We had a Cavalier in my Temple of Elemental Evil campaign who would occasionally Action Surge to draw a bunch of monsters toward himself. It was a really, really effective maneuver.

 

[Ancalagon]

We had a Cavalier in my Temple of Elemental Evil campaign who would occasionally Action Surge to draw a bunch of monsters toward himself. It was a really, really effective maneuver.

The Cavalier is a pretty good subclass - it's main problem is it's name. It's 25% horse-riding, 75% defense. You could play one, never ride a horse one, and still be effective.

Personally though, I prefer having a defensive card up my sleeve, but not be 100% defender. The psi warrior's set up seems quite balanced in that regard and I am very much looking forward to trying it. I've also seen a rune knight in operation for a few sessions and they were more effective at defense than I had expected.

 

[Bawylie]

I use Marching Order to do this.

The Scout goes first - they are the target of all traps, they roll the detection stuff for approaching enemies, etc. to determine surprise.

Navigator & Mapper and second. With Quartermaster at a close third. These two usually handle searching for stuff in an area like secret doors or treasure or interacting with stuff.

Overwatch is last in marching order but not strictly speaking behind everyone. What happens is, they position themselves so they can quickly move to the best position at the start of a fight (before anyone takes a turn). Consequently, whoever is in the overwatch position is the default target of all enemies in the first round of combat. They’re front and center - noticed before anyone else. The player in this position knows that, and gears up accordingly. If nobody takes the overwatch, any enemies can attack any characters.

Taking these roles in the marching order precludes other activities. (You can’t map AND guard) and sets expectations for what each character does in Exploration.

After round one, the baddies don’t Have To attack the overwatch, so at that point the battle becomes somewhat tactical and the players have to rely on terrain, decisions, movement, and positioning in order to mitigate incoming attacks.

I find in practice that concentrating the attacks on the one character in the first round is plenty of defender-y control. And it’s plausible enough in-universe. Of course they notice the warrior bellowing challenges and brandishing weapons first. Of course that warrior is closest and the imminent threat. So it makes enough sense that the first round happens at that scrimmage line. After that, with other characters shooting or casting or getting in the thick of it, enemies reassess the threats and act accordingly. So the players must also.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I would argue that no one wants to be a tank, they want the tankiness for other purposes.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I would argue that no one wants to be a tank, they want the tankiness for other purposes.

What

 

[Mind of tempest]

What

when you pick the warror you want to slay enemies and crush foes not be a wall of meat for the wizard, you want to be hard to kill but not because you wish to be a mere shield.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

when you pick the warror you want to slay enemies and crush foes not be a wall of meat for the wizard, you want to be hard to kill but not because you wish to be a mere shield.

Nah. Being a tank is also fun.