AC 56 at level 6! You too can do it!

[Cabral]

AC easily rises faster that to-hit bonuses at low levels you say? Let's see...

Level 5 Elven Wizard:
BAB: +2
Dex: +5
Point Blank Shot: +1
Weapon Focus (Crossbow): +1
Greater Magic Weapon: +2
Cat's Grace: +2
Invisibility: +2
Heroism: +2
True Strike: +20

Total to-hit bonus: 37

This puts me within striking range of your AC 56 character using no items other than a mundane crossbow, using only spells that the character can cast themselves, and using only the core books.

Make it better: Pull out the Expanded Psionic Handbook for Deep Impact, Fell Shot, or Unavoidable Strike. A Psychic Warrior can do it by 7th or one of the ECL 0 Psionic races, such as Elans, fighters can do it by 5, though the Concentration check will be more difficult. A non-psionic race can just Wild Talent. Psionic Meditation will allow a Wiz 1/Ftr 5 (concentration max ranks of 9) to attack with deep impact every round, though he won't have room for it `till character level 9.

That will strip away natural armor, armor, and shield bonuses. Make it an Elf Wizard 1/Fighter 5, and you get:
+5 BAB
+32 Deep Impact (by negating your +22 natural armor bonus and +6 greater Mage armor and +4 shield bonus)
+1 Weapon Focus
+20 True Strike
+4 Strength (assuming Max strength)

That's an effective bonus of more than +62 to hit (+42 when not using true strike) without taking into account strength enhancing magic items or even a masterwork weapon. With True Strike, it's an autohit against your "nigh untouchable AC."

A wild elf could replace Wizard with Sorcerer for extra spells and an effective +1 to concentration checks from the higher con bonus. Alternatively, you could skip the fighter/caster combo and use the Duskblade from the PHB2.

Your 56 AC seems far from untouchable at level 6, not only can the above "build" hit an AC of 56, it has retained more flexability than your "turtle".

 

[Darklone]

I wouldn't go so far. Why magic missile? Why not simply scorching ray? The touch AC of the high AC build wasn't too hard to hit.

But something to the whole topic:
The POV was: AC rises faster than to hit bonus.

AC increasing things:
- spells (here mostly some buff spells are considered for the big bonuses)
- abilities (feats: some puny +1 bonuses, C-Expertise: has a cap and use costs offensive, same for fighting defensively)
- items (some not necessary but they shorten the preparation time needed for the build, others like defending: same as abilities)
- armour: Increase over levels is pretty low... even considering better magic items/armours.

Now let's see to hit bonuses:
- level increase: BAB gets better. The attribute (strength/dex) gets better.
- spells/abilities/items/weapons: None of them is worse than the bonus to AC, it only depends on the preference of the PC whether he prefers offensive or defensive.

Summed up: To hit bonuses increase with level. Defense bonuses have to be paid for. If the enemy pays the same amount for offensive, he can beat your high AC.

 

[Legildur]

Summed up: To hit bonuses increase with level. Defense bonuses have to be paid for. If the enemy pays the same amount for offensive, he can beat your high AC.

That's what I've always assumed to be the case. Still, a high AC is something to value where it can be achieved as it will still be of significant benefit in many cases. But I agree with your summary.

 

[Goolpsy]

Actually there is a mistake in original "i can do this, here's a hint" post

10/base 22/nat 6/force 4/shield 2/deflect 4/CE 3/dodge 6/dex = 57 AC.

So 6 armor from Force ey? Since you're so godlike you should know that Mage armor provides an ARMOR bonus... not a Force bonus...

"An invisible but tangible field of force surrounds the subject of a mage armor spell, providing a +4 armor bonus to AC. "

the same bonus as a normal armor, and thats why you can't use it together with a normal armor, cause they kinda of negate eachother (don't stack whatever)

it dosn't change anything however, since you didn't already have the armor bonus used to something else. I does however free the Force bonus to add in some Force giving spell, hence increasing the AC

 

[Cabral]

So 6 armor from Force ey? Since you're so godlike you should know that Mage armor provides an ARMOR bonus... not a Force bonus...

While he said force bonus, I'm sure he meant an armor bonus that was a force effect. The shorthand distinction was only so that incorpreal attacks would not bypass it (though they still bypass a hefty chunk of his AC).

 

[Goolpsy]

i dont really care what he meant, when counting AC finiding out what stacks and what does not, you have to be precise, small errors like that changes everything

lets take his proposal for an example: so the 6 is force armor, then there's room for usual armor, 6 dex or a fullplate + 1-2 enchantment bonus (magic vestment)
= increase in AC about 3-4 ...

 

[KarinsDad]

From 1-10, AC increase is astronomically higher than to-hit increase (assuming you optimize AC via spells/abilities/feats and there are no items of permanent True Strike or the like. Making a 1st-level character with AC 40 is pretty tough, but a 6th-level character can easily have AC 60+ for four combats/day.)

...

FWIW, off the top of my head I can only get around AC 56-58, so perhaps saying 60+ was a little extreme.

...

Want a hint? Here's the breakdown:

10/base 22/nat 6/force 4/shield 2/deflect 4/CE 3/dodge 6/dex = 57 AC.

There's more stuff you can pile on on top of that, if you want to dig around in some splatbooks. Now, this character isn't going to be so hot for anything aside from tanking, but why else would you maximize AC like this? My rule of thumb, as mentioned before, is to stop when I get 5* class level AC, thus freeing up resources so the character can contribute in other ways.

An elven artificer 6 should be able to have that for 4 combats/day . . . easily.

Moritheil, your big claim is in two threads now. One thread you even started yourself on the topic.

But, we're all still waiting for your 4 combats per day AC 57 Elven Artificer. You already disappointed us by dropping it from 60+ to 57. Don't tell me that you are going to disappoint us again.

Tick, tick, tick, ..., zzzzzzzzzz

 

[Endur]

A very simple build. Dwarven Fighter + Dwarven Cleric with plant domain = Much Buffing, Very High AC. That's with two characters. Add in an arcane caster with additonal buff spells for even more ac. Add in Bead of Karma for higher level buffs. Rinse and Repeat.

 

[Darklone]

One similar thing not really to the topic of minmaxxing a high AC but it may give people the impression that a high AC is easier to achieve than a high to hit bonus:

If you have a barbarian in your group who's used to chop everything to pieces with rage... and you wonder why fighters and warriors are still around... do this:

IMC the barbarian (the first one, I did it twice) was level 5 with good stats. I took a warrior who was level 6 with average stats (Point buy 25) who happened to be the right hand of a local crimelord. Human sword and board fighter with Banded Mail IIRC and a large shield and some tumble skill for fighting defensively... so not even Tower Shield. Give him Weapon Focus and C-Expertise.

That did boost the warriors AC high enough that the raging barbarian only hit him with a 19 or 20 while the warrior had two attacks with a better chance to hit (First hit on a 16+, second on a 20 IIRC).

So if you're a barbarian in loinclothes, make sure they have a huge enhancement bonus to AC.

 

[KarinsDad]

A very simple build. Dwarven Fighter + Dwarven Cleric with plant domain = Much Buffing, Very High AC. That's with two characters. Add in an arcane caster with additonal buff spells for even more ac. Add in Bead of Karma for higher level buffs. Rinse and Repeat.

We are talking a single PC.

With an entire army including Archmages, I could take over the world.