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Pathfinder 1E airwalkrr's Rise of the Runelords AE PBP Reborn! [OOC]

airwalkrr

Adventurer
Before you read this, please note I found this so important that I spent a lot of time writing and rewriting in an attempt to word this properly, so please read carefully and try to understand I have only the best intentions of keeping the game interesting and exciting for everyone. :)

Okay, so the way I see it there are two things which ought to be addressed. Before I get to them, allow me to clear the air regarding what I consider to be an unfortunate misunderstanding. [MENTION=24234]kinem[/MENTION] had a valid point, so let me revise the behind-the-scenes narrative (since it was not really elaborated in-character). We need not interpret the recent events as cowardice on Nuko's part. In the revised narrative, Nuko charged bravely ahead! :angel: He dealt with several minor encounters which were not challenging enough to award XP but slowed his progress to the gate enough that other characters caught up (anyone who went straight towards the North Gate did the same). I apologize if it appeared I was trying to impart any such implications of cowardice (it was not my intent), and I admit my first OOC description of events prior to the present encounter did not fit the personality or intent of some PCs. :blush: My sole intention in even producing a narrative explanation was to allow Thrindar to be part of the action because Tailspinner said that he assumed his character had to wait behind. That concerned me. Leaving Thrindar two minutes behind the encounter would effectively mean Tailspinner would not have the opportunity to even participate as it will likely be over in a small number of rounds (a long time in PbP play).

1. The Party vs. The Individual
"A house divided against itself cannot stand."
-Abraham Lincoln

I think everyone understands this for the most part, but I believe it is worth a mention. This is a team game. You are expected to take on encounters as a team, not as lone wolves. While I am willing to make minor adjustments (see Modifying the Adventure, below), ultimately, sticking together when battle or danger is nearby is expected if you want the challenges to be fair. I am willing to be flexible to a fault right now because it is the beginning of the campaign.

If you feel the "party leader" is a concept with which you cannot work while also maintaining character identity, please discuss a method of keeping the party together most of the time that you all find acceptable. I proffered it as something which I felt was natural and rational given that within most groups a hierarchy is often quickly established else the groups dissolve. But it was certainly not intended as an absolute restriction on PC actions. It is more a guiding principle for teamwork, resolving unclear PC inclinations (i.e. do we take the left door or the right?), and an IC explanation for keeping the party from splitting up unnecessarily.

Next are the necessities of PbP. As above, this is something we probably all know, but it is a good reminder. Sitting around a table, a distraction or sidebar can preoccupy 15 minutes of the GM's time, and it is easy to snap the rest of the table back to attention. In PbP however it can preoccupy days (sometimes weeks). In my experience that makes it a real challenge to keep player attention focused. :.-( Players get invested in keeping track of a thread when their characters are involved, not when they are lagging behind.

Finally, there is the matter my personal limits as a GM. I mentioned already that I have difficulty keeping things straight in my head when running multiple encounters at once. So please try to understand my reluctance to do so. It is as much for your benefit as it is for mine. I have tried otherwise before. I get details mixed up, confuse the players, and then people lose interest or simply lose track of who is where. So whenever possible, I politely request you to find ways to keep the party together. I apologize if this cramps your style, but please understand it simply is not within my skill set to keep multiple encounters going at once effectively. I would prefer we all work together to focus the narrative in a way that keeps the PCs together (e.g. Nuko handling minor encounters) rather than find ways to split them up (e.g. Nuko waiting at the gate).

2. Modifying the Adventure (aka Story Timeline)
Now I am not a devotee of the "run it as written" philosophy of GMing APs. I will quickly discard what I consider ridiculous NPC motives and unreasonable NPC behaviors (unless insanity is an intended factor). I can devise my own motives and behaviors that fit the spirit of the adventure. On the other hand, if a timeline for an adventure is written in a way I find rational, I generally prefer to keep that timeline moving at a moderate pace. This is not a video game where monsters and dungeons remain locked in space and time until you arrive within their perception zone or an MMO where the encounter does not spawn until all the PCs have gathered at a particular point. Such devices are artificial ways to to compensate for the failings of technology. My campaign has a living world where things happen regardless of whether the PCs (or a requisite number thereof) are around to witness them.

All of that having been said, we all need to make compromises for the sake of keeping the game interesting, and this is where my main responsibility comes in. I am capable of and willing to massage the exact timing of certain events for the sake of the narrative (as I have done with the present encounter). I am particularly willing to do this for encounters that are key to the story. Also, in the vast majority of situations, I will allow you a reasonable amount of time to prepare effectively for any challenges ahead, and provide a reasonable amount of warning (if warranted) should you be advancing into a situation you are not prepared for. By and large, I expect and trust you will exercise good judgment. By the same token, I would like to believe my players expect and trust the same of me. Therefore, if I use a narrative explanation to keep the party together, I usually have a very good reason for that. If you feel the narrative is inappropriate for your character, I am happy to discuss a way to modify that narrative to your liking.

I expect the conversation will be ongoing as we refine elements of style. But I hope this has addressed all the issues and concerns expressed in the above player posts to our mutual enjoyment for now.
 

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airwalkrr

Adventurer
On an unrelated note, what does everyone think of the Armor as Damage Reduction rules so far? I actually rather like most aspects of it, despite the inability of the goblins to really do much hp damage to your characters so far. We do not have much data yet, but I have noted a few things.

1. Certain abilities, such as arcane strike, are quite powerful at this level, although I expect this will be less relevant to bypassing DR as time goes on.
2. I have noted at least a couple cases where what would be misses on the goblins turned into hits. Although the goblins have a small amount of DR, this turned out not to prevent them from falling in battle.
3. PC damage has been reduced so far, which seems to free the heal-capable classes to fight more. At present it seems a PC advantage, which is fine with me.
4. Critical hits are overly complicated in this system. While I recognize that the variant must compensate for lower numbers needed to hit, else virtually every critical threat would confirm, the CDCB and CDDC can vary too much to make this part of the rule appealing to me. I have considered simply using the Softer Critical Hits Variant (from the 3.5 DMG p. 28) in conjunction with the standard rules for confirming critical hits. Or maybe I can just come up with something simpler, as the idea of adding another variant rule does not appeal to me (even though Softer Critical Hits is a pretty simple rule, it is bound to cause confusion). Aside from cutting out the subsection for Critical Hits and Defense (which is also an option), are there any other thoughts on this?
 


perrinmiller

Adventurer
Re: Armor as DR. My negative opinion of the variant has not changed.

While the lower AC should mean more hits, I have rolled very badly and have not seen these hits anyway. Yes, I took Arcane Strike with full knowledge it would by-pass this armor as DR variant too and Jamir should kill 50% of the time he hits a goblin minion with a javelin. Mathematically, he should be a major participant for winning.

Sadly, karma has been unkindly paying me back for these powergaming decisions and Jamir has been mostly ineffective in combat so far. But that is not a reason against the variant.

I have two reasons for not liking the variant:
1. The Critical Hit complication is my biggest reason. It brings complication without a real benefit.

2. When you really look at what HP represent, a character is not really wounded until they reach 0HP and take a mechanical disadvantage that reduces combat capability. Therefore, I have been treating the armor as absorbing damage for RP fluff for several weeks now in several PF/d20 based games without the variant in use.

It makes more sense to RP that armor absorbed most of the damage on Character X taking 11 out of 12HP, yet still remained on his feet 100% combat capable. Because if you write that he got stabbed in the leg, then he would be bleeding and badly wounded (losing 1HP per round, reduced in movement, and have attack damage penalties like the sickened condition). In short, I think the whole argument for treating Armor as DR is based upon a misunderstanding of what HP actually represents.
 

Maidhc O Casain

Na Bith Mo Riocht Tá!
Honestly, I'm good either way. I like trying new things, and so far the variant seems fine to me. But I'm not one to delve deeply into the mechanics of such things; I like the way it feels to me on a descriptive, superficial level. Yes, that can be dealt with in narrative as well, so I wouldn't be heartbroken if we were to go back to the traditional d20 system. But my preference would be to give this system a more thorough trial first.

Regarding critical hits - again, I like trying new things! I actually use the Critical Hit and Fumble decks in most of the games I run because I like the variety they present.

Regarding the discussion of narrative style, keeping the party together, modifying the adventure, etc. - so far I'm thoroughly enjoying myself here. You made excellent points in your post, Airwalkrr, and gave a clear understanding of your perspective and your strengths and weak points as a GM. I think so long as we're keeping an open dialogue about such things, and keeping in mind that the purpose here is to enjoy ourselves in a hobby/game, we'll do fine.
 

airwalkrr

Adventurer
In a short addendum to the rules in Armor as Damage Reduction variant, certain elements seem artificially tacked on. For example, monster size affects whether or not one can bypass DR and how high one's Critical Defense DC is. That theme is not present in the core rules. It is almost as if some designer's house rules for size-based DR bypassing and size-based critical hits somehow sneaked in. This is a neutral observation at this point. It could be that at higher levels there becomes a more obvious need for this that we simply do not observe at the moment.
 

kinem

Adventurer
If a situation arises where the party needs to stay together, it is best to simply bring it up OOC. We can then find a suitable rationalization.

I don't think the party should always need to stay together though. airwalkrr, I think we could find ways to handle it.

For the North Gate, the real problem was that having one character stop to put on armor while the goblins possibly had free rein over the civilians was a bad tactical decision. I expect that it's in the module that way. It could have made sense if we'd been wounded and needed a boost.

As for Armor as DR, my opinion has not changed; I still dislike it.

For critical hits, why don't we just use a normal confirmation roll, but with armor adding to the armor class on the roll to confirm the crit, as if that roll is made without the Armor as DR variant?
 

airwalkrr

Adventurer
I understand your position, kinem. In the long run though, splitting the party is not a good idea in a battle zone, and it wasn't fair to Tailspinner to leave him out of the encounter without at least discussing it with him first. Again, I apologize if you didn't like my first explanation and hope the second was more to your liking. I'm not going to point out every situation where the party ought to stick together OOC; that should be left to player judgment. But I will do my best to describe the situation so you have enough information to make a reasonable decision.

I would have thought my discussion on Modifying the Adventure would have ruled out any comments that might seem to point blame at the way the module is written. Everything I do, I do for a reason. It's never the module's fault.

*****

I'm not casting judgment on Armor as DR yet. But thanks to everyone for the feedback.
 

airwalkrr

Adventurer
A major update to the IC thread has been posted. For practical purposes, the goblin attack on Sandpoint has been thwarted! Now is a good time to divide treasure (as noted in the thread) and decide where to go from here. To keep OOC comments limited in the IC thread, you might wish to discuss a standard operating procedure for how to divide treasure here. Individual items which PCs wish to be claim can of course be discussed IC. Assume everything else is sold as noted in the IC thread.
 

perrinmiller

Adventurer
To keep OOC comments limited in the IC thread, you might wish to discuss a standard operating procedure for how to divide treasure here.
The method I prefer is maintaining a treasury of community property that includes group purchases and supplies and magic items that can be used and passed around between characters. This way we could theoretically buy a wand of CLW collectively.

Then most of the vender trash is sold and we pay out a distribution (keeping some petty cash in the treasury). We could use a Wiki to track and manage.

In the case of the current treasure, outside of the potions it appears to be all vender trash as we are all medium sized creatures.
 

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