alt.Ranger - I know, I know...

[Gilrion]

First of all, I would like to apologize for bringing this topic up again. If you do not have the patience to look at another ranger class, please move on.
I would also like to refrain from discussing whether or not the core ranger is unbalanced, unflavoured, or both.

Anyway, here goes:

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Ranger

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d10.
Class Skills: as PHB ranger

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields.

TABLE: The Ranger

[COLOR=white]
        Base           Fort    Ref     Will
Level   Attack Bonus   Save    Save    Save    Special
-----   ------------   ----    ----    ----    -------
1       +1             +2      +0      +0      Track, Survivor Feat
2       +2             +3      +0      +0      Trailblazing, Wild Life
3       +3             +3      +1      +1      Uncanny dodge (Dex bonus to AC)
4       +4             +4      +1      +1      
5       +5             +4      +1      +1      Spot Traps
6       +6/+1          +5      +2      +2      Uncanny dodge (can't be flanked)
7       +7/+2          +5      +2      +2      Fast Recovery
8       +8/+3          +6      +2      +2      Fast Tracking
9       +9/+4          +6      +3      +3      Skill Mastery (Wilderness Lore)
10      +10/+5         +7      +3      +3      Ranger Special Ability
11      +11/+6/+1      +7      +3      +3      Uncanny dodge (+1 against traps)
12      +12/+7/+2      +8      +4      +4      
13      +13/+8/+3      +8      +4      +4      Ranger Special Ability
14      +14/+9/+4      +9      +4      +4      Uncanny dodge (+2 against traps)
15      +15/+10/+5     +9      +5      +5      
16      +16/+11/+6/+1  +10     +5      +5      Ranger Special Ability
17      +17/+12/+7/+2  +10     +5      +5      Uncanny dodge (+3 against traps)
18      +18/+13/+8/+3  +11     +6      +6      
19      +19/+14/+9/+4  +11     +6      +6      Ranger Special Ability
20      +20/+15/+10/+5 +12     +6      +6      Uncanny dodge (+4 against traps)
[/COLOR]

Track: A ranger gains Track as a bonus feat. In addition to this, a ranger adds his ranger class level to DCs to be tracked.


Survivor Feat: At 1st level, living in the wild allows the ranger to pick one feat from the following list: Alertness, Ambidexterity, Endurance, Favored Enemy, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Run, Skill Focus or Toughness.

Favored Enemy: +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls, as well as Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot and Wilderness Lore checks against one type of creature.


Wild Life: At 2nd level, a ranger has become accustomed to living in the rough outdoors. He gains a +2 bonus to Climb and Swim checks.


Trailblazing: At 2nd level, the ranger becomes particularly skilled at navigating and orienteering. The ranger can guide others when traveling in poor conditions (see Table 9-4: Hampered Movement in the PHB) and/or difficult terrain (see Table 9-5: Terrain and Overland Movement in the PHB). The ranger makes a Wilderness Lore check to improve the travel of the party.

Check Result:
15-25: improves travel time by 25%
25-35: improves travel time by 50%
35+: improves travel time by 75%

If the party is hustling, increase the DC by 5. The Ranger may guide a group of up to 4 individuals at no penalty. Each additional person in the group being guided incurs a -2 penalty. Trailblazing applies to overland movement only. Trailblazing may not improve the travel beyond highway travel in the terrain in question under good conditions.


Uncanny Dodge: At 3rd level and above, the ranger retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) if caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker.

At 6th level, the ranger can no longer be flanked. The exception to this defense is that a rogue at least four levels higher than the ranger can still flank.

At 11th level, the ranger gains a +1 bonus to Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks by traps. At 14th level, these bonuses rise to +2. At 17th, they rise to +3, and at 20th they rise to +4.


Spot Traps: At 5th level, a ranger gains the extraordinary ability to spot traps and snares in the wild. When a ranger is actively searching for traps, he is entitled to a Wilderness Lore check (DC equal to the trap's Search DC +5) to notice the trap. The ranger can do this even for traps whose Difficulty Class is higher than 20.
This ability only works in natural environments. Note that it does not impart any knowledge of disarming traps, nor does it allow a ranger to use the Search skill as a rogue does.


Fast Recovery: Starting at 7th level, the ranger heals at twice the rate of regular people. Due to his extensive time spent wandering the wilderness alone, the ranger is able to recover lost hit points, subdual damage and ability damage at twice the normal rate. He doubles the benefits from sleep and complete bedrest, and can also administer long-term care (see Heal skill, PHB page 69) to himself, provided he has the right the right materials. A healer's kit is considered to have all the materials necessary.


Fast Tracking: Starting at 8th level, a ranger can track at full speed if he beats the track DC by 5. If he does not (but still makes the original DC) the ranger can still track, but only moves at half speed.


Skill Mastery (Wilderness Lore): At 9th level, the ranger becomes so certain in his skills in the wild that he can use them reliably even under adverse conditions. When making a Wilderness Lore check, the ranger may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent him from doing so.




Ranger Special Abilities: On achieving 10th level and every three levels thereafter (13th, 16th, 19th), a ranger gets a special ability of his choice from among the following:

Ambush: The ranger is trained in stalking and ambushing its prey. For every round spent studying a group of opponents, the ranger gains a +1 insight bonus (max +5) to his initiative check against this group. Studying a group of opponents is a full-round action.
Awareness: A ranger is entitled to an additional Listen/Spot check to avoid being surprised.
Commune with Nature: The ranger gains information about his surrounding terrain with a Wilderness Lore check (DC 30), as per the spell Commune with Nature. He has a caster level of 1 for the purposes of this spell (see spell description, page 186). This ability can be used once per day.
Quick Wits: The ranger adds his Wisdom modifier to initiative checks.
Pounce: If the ranger takes a charge action against a flat-footed opponent, he can make a full attack at the end of the charge.
Ranged AoO: Once per round, when an opponent provokes an attack of opportunity, the ranger may perform a ranged attack against that opponent. This attack counts as the ranger's attacks of opportunity for that round. Even a ranger with the Combat Reflexes feat can't use this ability more than once per round.
Scent: The ranger gains the Scent feat, as described in page 81 of the Dungeon Master's Guide.
Sprint: Once per day, the ranger can move upto three times his base speed with a move-equivalent action.

Each of these abilities can be selected only once.

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Well, that's it. I would very much appreciate input, of course. Do you think it overpowered? Underpowered? What's good/bad?

I tried to keep it away from other classes' abilities. Uncanny dodge is the only thing I've "stolen", but it was not exclusive to any class. Plus, I think it makes more sense for the ranger than the barbarian. I kept the whole progression of the ability so as to keep it within core rules.
I would have liked to keep spells as they were, and would have done so were it not for the huge amount of supplements adding spells to the ranger. The core list is pretty weak and would not unbalance things, I think, but some of the new spells would.
I am still thinking of putting in good reflex saves, though. The medium save found in Star Wars and other d20 systems would be nice, but I am trying to keep it close to a core class.

So, what do you think? Opinions are welcome.

 

[Crothian]

THis is way over powered. I'd tone it down a lot.

 

[Gilrion]

How is it that overpowered, over the rogue, for example? It gets 4 sp/level with less skills and no sneak attack. Basically, it trades this for full BAB and fighter hps, with some abilities that are mostly non-combat related. The ranger's special abilities may be better than the rogue's, but he does not gain evasion; and remember he can only take 4 of them, and at higher levels. The rogue also has the advantage of picking a feat in place of a special ability.
Furthermore, the ranger has lost the ability to use trigger items from his spell list. He can't cure and doesn't have animal companions.

Summing it up, what exactly is too much?


PS: I've removed one of the special abilities. Forgot this puppy no longer has Animal Friendship to cast.

 

[Crothian]

Track: A ranger gains Track as a bonus feat. In addition to this, a ranger adds his ranger class level to DCs to be tracked.

>>>>Are you saying that they add their Ranger levels to the track roll? Because adding it to the DCs actually makes it hardier to track. That is really good. They get a feat (track) and an ability better then any feat.


Survivor Feat: At 1st level, living in the wild allows the ranger to pick one feat from the following list: Alertness, Ambidexterity, Endurance, Favored Enemy, Favored Terrain, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Run, Skill Focus or Toughness.

>>>>Yet another feat at first level. Favored enemy is better then a normal rangers because of the plus to hit and better bonus earlier. Favored enemy is like getting 6 skill focuses that only work in one area. An area the Ranger will be in most of the time.

Wild Life: At 2nd level, a ranger has become accustomed to living in the rough outdoors. He gains a +2 bonus to Climb, Jump and Swim checks.

>>>>That’s the equivalent of three Skill focuses at one level. Skill Focus might be seen as a week feat, but it is very helpful, especially when it costs you nothing.

Trailblazing: At 2nd level, the ranger becomes particularly skilled at navigating and orienteering. The ranger can guide others when traveling in poor conditions (see Table 9-4: Hampered Movement in the PHB) and/or difficult terrain (see Table 9-5: Terrain and Overland Movement in the PHB). The ranger makes a Wilderness Lore check to improve the travel of the party.

>>>>This is the equivalent of a very good feat as well. Gettiing all of this in the first two levels is way too much.

Uncanny Dodge: At 3rd level and above, the ranger retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) if caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker.

>>>>Why uncanny Dodge? I’m not sure this fits a Ranger. Also, it is a very powerful ability.

Spot Traps: At 5th level, a ranger gains the extraordinary ability to spot traps and snares in the wild. When a ranger comes within 30 feet of such a device, he is entitled to a Wilderness Lore check (DC equal to the trap's Search DC) to notice the trap. The ranger can do this even for traps whose Difficulty Class is higher than 20.
If actively searching, the ranger gains a +2 bonus to the check. This ability only works in natural environments. Note that it does not impart any knowledge of disarming traps, nor does ti allow a ranger to use the Search skill as a rogue does.

>>>>So, they are better then a rogue at finding traps in the wilderness? No one gets to automatically search for traps when they are close. For everyone it has to be an announced thing. Also, you are allowing them to use their best skill (wilderness Lore) to replace search.

Fast Recovery: Starting at 7th level, the ranger heals at twice the rate of regular people. Due to his extensive time spent wandering the wilderness alone, the ranger is able to recover lost hit points, subdual damage and ability damage at twice the normal rate. He doubles the benefits from sleep and complete bedrest, and can also administer long-term care (see Heal skill, PHB page 69) to himself, provided he has the right the right materials. A healer's kit is considered to have all the materials necessary.

>>>>This is better then the feat Improved Healing.

Fast Tracking: Starting at 8th level, a ranger can track at full speed if he beats the track DC by 5. If he does not (but still makes the original DC) the ranger can still track, but only moves at half speed.

>>>>Beating the DC by 5 is not that hard, I’d increase this to at least 10. Especially if they get to add their level to all track rolls.

Skill Mastery (Wilderness Lore): At 9th level, the ranger becomes so certain in his skills in the wild that he can use them reliably even under adverse conditions. When making a Wilderness Lore check, the ranger may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent him from doing so.

>>>>That’s a fine ability.

Ranger Special Abilities: On achieving 10th level and every three levels thereafter (13th, 16th, 19th), a ranger gets a special ability of his choice from among the following:

Ambush: The ranger is trained in stalking and ambushing its prey. For every round spent studying a group of opponents, the ranger gains a +1 insight bonus (max +5) to his initiative check against this group. Studying a group of opponents is a full-round action.
Awareness: A ranger is entitled to an additional Listen/Spot check to avoid being surprised.

>>>>So, they get two checks? I could understand a +3 bonus for avoiding be surprised by an additional roll seems way too good.

Commune with Nature: The ranger gains information about his surrounding terrain with a Wilderness Lore check (DC 30), as per the spell Commune with Nature. He has a caster level of 1 for the purposes of this spell (see spell description, page 186). This ability can be used once per day.
Cunning Attack: Whenever a ranger's target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC, the ranger adds his Wisdom bonus to attack rolls. This applies to both melee and ranged attacks made against a flat-footed opponent.

>>>>So, when an opponent is denied his Dex bonus, the Ranger gets to add wisdom modifier to the attack roll? That seems a little odd.

Keen Senses: The ranger gains the ability to use its nonvisual senses to "see" at a small distance. He gains blindsight with a radius of 5 feet.

>>>>That’s another feat except you allow them to ignore the prerequites.

Quick Wits: The ranger adds his Wisdom modifier to initiative checks.

Pounce: If the ranger takes a charge action against a flat-footed opponent, he can make a full attack at the end of the charge.
Ranged AoO: Once per round, when an opponent provokes an attack of opportunity, the ranger may perform a ranged attack against that opponent. This attack counts as the ranger's attacks of opportunity for that round. Even a ranger with the Combat Reflexes feat can't use this ability more than once per round.
Scent: The ranger gains the Scent feat, as described in page 81 of the Dungeon Master's Guide.
Sprint: Once per day, the ranger can move upto three times his base speed with a move-equivalent action.

Each of these abilities can be selected only once.

>>>>You are giving them way too much. And it’s too much like the rogue for my tastes.

 

[Gilrion]

>>>>Are you saying that they add their Ranger levels to the track roll? Because adding it to the DCs actually makes it hardier to track. That is really good. They get a feat (track) and an ability better then any feat.

No. I'm saying other people tracking them have a harder time (they add their Ranger level to the DC). It just seems like a ranger should be hard to track IMO. As it is, it is as easy to track a skillful ranger and a full-plated fighter.

>>>>Yet another feat at first level. Favored enemy is better then a normal rangers because of the plus to hit and better bonus earlier. Favored enemy is like getting 6 skill focuses that only work in one area. An area the Ranger will be in most of the time.

Favored Enemy as-is is utterly useless. Even at level 20, I would rather have one feat over the whole thing. Still, some people like the idea of a monster-hunting ranger, so it's there. I don't think it is too much. Favored Terrain, you're probably right. Woudl it be possible to salvage it and still make it useful?
As for this being another feat: Track is hardly a powergamer's dream. Look at my list of feats, now. Only one of them is combat-related: Ambidexterity. The rest are the saves feats, nothing major IMO. Note that my rangers do not get virtual TWF.

>>>>That’s the equivalent of three Skill focuses at one level. Skill Focus might be seen as a week feat, but it is very helpful, especially when it costs you nothing.

Rangers have a great skill list, but not enough skill points. That's a problem for every class in D&D (not enough sps, that is), but this allows the ranger to have his skills and still be able to "range", as one might say. Say I take out Jump. That leaves it as the cost of one of those "+2 to two related skills" feats that seem to be all over d20 books nowadays.

>>>>This is the equivalent of a very good feat as well. Gettiing all of this in the first two levels is way too much.

Oh, come now! This is by no means an overpowering ability. It just makes the ranger more useful at low levels. Once the PCs reach the mid-to-high levels they'll hardly ever walk again: Teleports, Wind Walks, you name it. And it only works for overland movement, ie not in combat.

>>>>Why uncanny Dodge? I’m not sure this fits a Ranger. Also, it is a very powerful ability.

The ranger is a fighter in light armour alone in the wilds with nothing but its wits. How is uncanny dodge not appropriate?

>>>>So, they are better then a rogue at finding traps in the wilderness? No one gets to automatically search for traps when they are close. For everyone it has to be an announced thing. Also, you are allowing them to use their best skill (wilderness Lore) to replace search.

Ok, the automatic check if within 30 ft is too much. Maybe an actively searching ranger could try to see the traps with a +5 DC? I would still like to use Wilderness Lore, though, because it only works outdoors, meaning the ranger knows this because it is unnatural. It seems fitting for the ranger to disarm poachers and such.

>>>>This is better then the feat Improved Healing.

I would think use of wands of cure spells was far better...

>>>>Beating the DC by 5 is not that hard, I’d increase this to at least 10. Especially if they get to add their level to all track rolls.

It's just a slightly different way for the skill to work. If you take a -5 penalty to the check, you can move at half speed. This works the other way around, that's all.

>>>>So, they get two checks? I could understand a +3 bonus for avoiding be surprised by an additional roll seems way too good.

A high level ranger should be hard to surprise IMO. It's by no means impossible for the ranger to miss (especially the way you can play Hide in 3E - it's very very powerful with Sneak Attack).

>>>>So, when an opponent is denied his Dex bonus, the Ranger gets to add wisdom modifier to the attack roll? That seems a little odd.

The ranger strikes me as a cunning warrior. Guess this wasn't the best mechanic to portray that.

>>>>That’s another feat except you allow them to ignore the prerequites.

Agreed, this was too much.

>>>>You are giving them way too much. And it’s too much like the rogue for my tastes.

Well, I guess that's what the ranger is to me: a warrior with wilderness skills. I tried, and apparently failed. Wasn't the first, wont' be the last. Thank you for your input, Crothian. Any more comments are still appreciated.

 

[Crothian]

No. I'm saying other people tracking them have a harder time (they add their Ranger level to the DC). It just seems like a ranger should be hard to track IMO. As it is, it is as easy to track a skillful ranger and a full-plated fighter.

>>>>Okay, that makes more sense. But the ability to cover tracks is in the tracking feat.


Favored Enemy as-is is utterly useless. Even at level 20, I would rather have one feat over the whole thing. Still, some people like the idea of a monster-hunting ranger, so it's there. I don't think it is too much. Favored Terrain, you're probably right. Woudl it be possible to salvage it and still make it useful?
As for this being another feat: Track is hardly a powergamer's dream. Look at my list of feats, now. Only one of them is combat-related: Ambidexterity. The rest are the saves feats, nothing major IMO. Note that my rangers do not get virtual TWF.


>>>>Favoreed enemy is not useless unless the DM makes it useless. A good DM allows characters to use their abilities no matter what they are. And I'm not rating this on a Power Gamers dream. If those are your standards then I will never agree that your class is balanced.

Rangers have a great skill list, but not enough skill points. That's a problem for every class in D&D (not enough sps, that is), but this allows the ranger to have his skills and still be able to "range", as one might say. Say I take out Jump. That leaves it as the cost of one of those "+2 to two related skills" feats that seem to be all over d20 books nowadays.

>>>>If characters need more skill points, give them all more. You don't want to just add that ability to one class.

Oh, come now! This is by no means an overpowering ability. It just makes the ranger more useful at low levels. Once the PCs reach the mid-to-high levels they'll hardly ever walk again: Teleports, Wind Walks, you name it. And it only works for overland movement, ie not in combat.

>>>>Your making a lot of assumptions here. Not all mid to high level character travel by those means. Not all parties have Clerics and Wizards. And just because it's useless in combat does not make it any weaker. Role playing games consist of much more then just combat.


The ranger is a fighter in light armour alone in the wilds with nothing but its wits. How is uncanny dodge not appropriate?

>>>>Uncanny dodge is something barbarians and rogues have. I would hope you could come up with something a little more original. Rangers are woodsmen that live by their wits, yes, but how does that help them avoid traps? Perhaps some of the lower uncanny dodge abilities fit like never losing dex to AC.


Ok, the automatic check if within 30 ft is too much. Maybe an actively searching ranger could try to see the traps with a +5 DC? I would still like to use Wilderness Lore, though, because it only works outdoors, meaning the ranger knows this because it is unnatural. It seems fitting for the ranger to disarm poachers and such.

>>>>I can understand what your trying to do, but this allows Rangers to allow one skill to take over for the other. Now, you could offer synegy bonuses for a high wilderness lore skill to search and have a bonus for searching outdoors.

I would think use of wands of cure spells was far better...

>>>>Of course they would, but that's not the point. THe point is your giving them an ability that works like a feat only better. Now, if it was a spell like ability usible x/day then you can campare it to a spell. Otherwise it's apples and oranges.


A high level ranger should be hard to surprise IMO. It's by no means impossible for the ranger to miss (especially the way you can play Hide in 3E - it's very very powerful with Sneak Attack).

>>>Sneak attack is very powerful, but highly limited. I'm not saying they shouldn't be hard to suprise, I just think bonuses work better then a reroll.



Well, I guess that's what the ranger is to me: a warrior with wilderness skills. I tried, and apparently failed. Wasn't the first, wont' be the last. Thank you for your input, Crothian. Any more comments are still appreciated.

Redoing the Ranger is never a bad idea. It's obvious you have a vision in mind and hopefully that vision can come to be a reality. You didn't fail, this is the first draft. Rome wasn't built in a day an neither was the PHB written in a day. It takes a little effort, playtesting, and many rewrites before most things become what we want them.

 

[lobo]

Feedback

You have some good ideas but you base class is over powered. I suggest that you incorporate your survivor feats, special abilities, and the other abilities you designed such as: (spot traps, favored enemy, and trail blazing) into a list of abilities called "Ranger Special Abilities." Then at levels: 1, 2, 5, 10, 15, and 20 allow players to choose from these abilities, this is assuming your variant Ranger is a spell caster. As I have suggested the player gets freedom of choice to tailor the Ranger but at the expense of virtual two weapon fighting and the standard favored enemy system.

If your Ranger is not a spell caster than separate your survivor feats from the "Ranger Special Abilities" and allow the player to take a survivor feat at levels: 4, 8, 11, and 14.