[Angel] 2/11/04 *Spoilers*

[Datt]

Wow, can't believe there isn't a thread on this one already.


Okay episode. It looked like filler for the most part, except for something at the beginning that cought my eye. Gunn had trouble remembering some legal stuff. That is the first time this season I have noticed him having trouble. I wonder that if since the white room is empty and the liaison between the senior partners is gone, if the group won't start to have thier *gifts* start to fail a bit.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Wow, can't believe there isn't a thread on this one already.


Okay episode. It looked like filler for the most part, except for something at the beginning that cought my eye. Gunn had trouble remembering some legal stuff. That is the first time this season I have noticed him having trouble. I wonder that if since the white room is empty and the liaison between the senior partners is gone, if the group won't start to have thier *gifts* start to fail a bit.

I figure it's important, but it's a bit obvious. I don't think any of the others really had any "gifts" though.

I'm not particularly keen on the whole "partial soul transference" thing.
it was a decent filler ep, though once again someone had to point out that being in W&H was "wrong". I mean, random stranger #56b knows it's "wrong"? Odd.

I also didn't like how Spike was so absent, given last ep's revalation, I really wish they'd deal with stuff better for more continuity. Eve's disappearance was the only mark, and even that was barely a nod to the fact that tracking her should have been important to them.

 

[Hand of Evil]

An okay show but one of importants too, it was a reflection of the past, of issues of the good fight, of drawing the line.

I think the group is about to be team Angel again.

 

[Endur]

Possibly Gunn is going to be the next liason to the senior partners.

 

[myrdden]

What a lame episode. That's about all I can say about it. Another filler episode which I found contrived (even for a show about vampires) and boring.

Oh and can we stuff Spike into evey single episode, no matter how contrived, just so that we can see him?

Angel is losing me quickly...

 

[LightPhoenix]

Oh and can we stuff Spike into evey single episode, no matter how contrived, just so that we can see him?

My thoughts exactly. I understand why Spike is being featured so prominently - he has good ratings with test audiences. I'm just completely sick of the rest of the cast, who made the show, being relegated to almost nothing in favor of Spike. Even Fred, who I'm not fond of.

On the episode itself, the only thing I found interesting about it was Gunn seemingly losing his abilities. The rest of the episode was entirely boring.

I think the problem this season has been with the writers. I don't know if they've mostly migrated from Buffy (and can't deal with the Angel crew)or if the Angel writers are completely unable to deal with Spike, or both. A lot has been missing from the show this season and last though, and it shows. Some people are quick to blame it on the absence of Cordelia (which is not to say they are blaming Charisma Carpenter, just to clarify, because I know if I don't someone will misinterpret the statement), but I would whole-heartedly disagree. I think rather it's simply that they've lost sight of the fact that Angel, while certainly built around the title character, is an ensemble show.

Where do I think it all started to go downhill? Fred. Wait, seriously, hear me out. When they wrote Fred into the show, she had a lot of potential to be a very interesting and dynamic character. What happened, in my opinion, is that the writers just didn't make her mesh with the original crew well at all. They pretty much forced her on the show, trying to give her some reason to be there. She hasn't really even caught her stride yet, in my opinion. It seems to me these last couple of seasons they're just throwing everything at her character and seeing what sticks, instead of letting the character be herself, if that makes sense.

Gunn started to have a lot of the same problems around the same time. He just was sort of there, outside of the core three (Angel, Wes, Cordy). It really wasn't until this season (well, the end of the last) that I think Gunn started to be interesting again. His character finally grew into his own, and it made sense. Gunn always had a "just do it" sort of attitude, a certain personal confidence, and they're letting it shine through this season, and it's one of the best things they've done.

That's also why Spike is giving me such grief. He is just not meshing, and quite honestly it doesn't even seem like the writers are even trying to make him blend with the rest of the cast at this point. At first I wasn't too concerned about Spike, since it looked like they were trying to get him to be part of the group. Of course, that's completely contrary to both the character and the spirit of the show, and that's why he's not working out.

Now, unless I'm mistaken, Joss wrote the episode with Cordelia, and the show was good not because of Cordy, but because Joss understands what makes the show work - the ensemble. What Joss needs to do is get his writers to start realizing that, because otherwise the show it going to go downhill quick.

 

[RangerWickett]

I really enjoyed the episode. The ending was a bit blah, and the 'let them stand on chairs' bit was silly in a bad way, but the early parts with Angel on the ship was silly in a good way.

"I was Rasputin's lover!"

 

[John Crichton]

My thoughts exactly. I understand why Spike is being featured so prominently - he has good ratings with test audiences. I'm just completely sick of the rest of the cast, who made the show, being relegated to almost nothing in favor of Spike. Even Fred, who I'm not fond of.

[snip]

What Joss needs to do is get his writers to start realizing that, because otherwise the show it going to go downhill quick.

I'd love to have more continuity as well but it was said before the season started that the eps would be more stand-alone in nature than we were used to - a Season One feel as it were. Don't expect it to be last season.

Now, just to calm the flames a bit I do want to see more of Wes (being my favorite Angel character). I do want it to be more like recent Angel seasons with the continuous storylines. I did like last season more than this one. It doesn't change the fact that this is still good TV. Okay, this ep wasn't great and it doesn't hold a candle to last week's but it was certainly entertaining, to me.

Does Spike seem a bit forced? Sometimes, but just a little and those times are fleeting and painless. Whenever you shake up a show as much as they have - 2 main characters gone, adding a new one plus an entirely new angle with W&H - there are bound to be growing pains. Last season (as was the season before) was one of the best ever put to the small screen. Give them a little slack with the follow ups.

I've been reading your rants for a few weeks now and felt that I had to respond. Try watching from a different angle. Or if it is simply not up to your standards, stop watching. No harm in that.

That said.

I didn't enjoy this episode that much, I'll call this one par. It was still good but the payoff at the end was really telegraphed. Every season has shows like this and they tend to show up right before sweeps (which technically has already started) and then they pull out the big guns. I did like the submarnine scenes. Nazi Spike was funny. The writers keep pushing the "this is wrong" angle which has been obvious since the end of last season. Angel knows it is wrong but there are consequences to him/the team leaving (mystical and not-so-mystical) W&H. The good stuff is yet to come. We still have the big bad, hopefully more Lindsey and Shan-Shu (sp?) to look forward to. Yeah, this one was filler but it was better than 99% of the other "filler" out there.

 

[LightPhoenix]

I'd love to have more continuity as well but it was said before the season started that the eps would be more stand-alone in nature than we were used to - a Season One feel as it were. Don't expect it to be last season.

You missed my point entirely. I'm talking about it being an ensemble show. The degree of... arc-ness is all I can think to call it (continuity isn't really the right word, as it implies internal consistency, not a story arc)... or not is irrelevant. Everyone in the cast needs to be involved, and lately that just hasn't been the case.

Does Spike seem a bit forced? Sometimes, but just a little and those times are fleeting and painless. Whenever you shake up a show as much as they have - 2 main characters gone, adding a new one plus an entirely new angle with W&H - there are bound to be growing pains. Last season (as was the season before) was one of the best ever put to the small screen. Give them a little slack with the follow ups.

Well, fleeting and painless are just your opinion, just as my opinions on his inclusion are mine. I've already admitted (I think, if I haven't, I am now ) that there is a large part of me that resents Spike being on the show. I was more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt after the last couple of seasons - they were very well written for the most part. And you know what? In the beginning of the season, I really didn't mind Spike. However, as this season has gone on, he's started to get more and more predominant, and at the expense of the characters I've enjoyed watching for four years before this.

I would be perfectly fine with Spike if he was on par with the other characters, especially Wes. However, the hard fact of it is that he isn't, he's being put above them, and that bothers me.

Oh, and if anything the last few seasons are the reason not to cut them slack - they're more than capable writers, and the last few seasons are proof.

I've been reading your rants for a few weeks now and felt that I had to respond. Try watching from a different angle. Or if it is simply not up to your standards, stop watching. No harm in that.

I like to rant.

There's one thing I would like to say though, and it's that there's no offense taken, from you or anyone else who chooses to take task with me or my opinions. Call me out, make me sound like an idiot, whatever. I rant on these boards because I know I'll find intelligent conversation about the shows I like here. I fully expect a lot of people's opinions out there to differ with mine - I'm well aware of being in the minority opinion in a lot of ways. After all, I don't think Fred is hot and have the bare minimum of Buffy knowledge.

That said, I personally think it's okay to be frustrated with a show you like, and it's okay to express that frustration with your peers. Let there be no mistake, I still like the show very much, and am not likely to stop watching any time soon. I obviously am very frustrated with the show this season though. Yes, I was a harsh a couple of weeks ago with the slayer episode (though I still stand by my opinion that it was a terrible episode, all things Buffy aside). This episode definitely didn't blow my skirt up. I'm frustrated because I know the show can be better - the proof is there, in episodes like last week's, and in the past seasons.

I'm sure my rantings are probably bothering more than a few of you. Honestly, I wish someone had spoken up before now - I would have restrained myself. I'm sorry. From here on out, I promise to try not to rant. I can't promise not to be disappointed, or to be critical. I'll simply give my opinions on the episode and leave it at that.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Oh and can we stuff Spike into evey single episode, no matter how contrived, just so that we can see him?

You know he has his own calendar! I agree, Spike just seems to take over.