[Angel] 2/11/04 *Spoilers*

[Welverin]

And good call on Connor Datt. Angst is sure to be a-coming.

Kill me now, please.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I think the problem this season has been with the writers. I don't know if they've mostly migrated from Buffy (and can't deal with the Angel crew)or if the Angel writers are completely unable to deal with Spike, or both. A lot has been missing from the show this season and last though, and it shows. Some people are quick to blame it on the absence of Cordelia (which is not to say they are blaming Charisma Carpenter, just to clarify, because I know if I don't someone will misinterpret the statement), but I would whole-heartedly disagree. I think rather it's simply that they've lost sight of the fact that Angel, while certainly built around the title character, is an ensemble show.

I agree, they spotlight one character at a time, and it's odd. But I think they need to trim some characters. I much prefered Lorne as a singer that they went to see when they needed him, rather than a main cast member. Gunn also seems to be an "extra" character. Fred is lacking in many traits, as you said.

I think Wes fills the occult role, which I prefer the show to have. I don't like all the science this season is injecting.

Contrary to yourself, I think Spike adds a lot to the show, he serves as something of a light hearted counterpoint to Angel's brooding nature. The shared history between the two works well, and their friendly enmity is fun.

I think Spike brings one of the main theme's for this season to the page, which is the whole "we were evil" redemption stuff. This ties in with the "W&H is evil and will never change" theme, and both seem to be used pretty heavy handed.

Harmony is a good example, a recurring character that isn't a Major character. Fred, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, they're all major characters in the shows setting, and that's why their absence of spotlight is more jarring.

If Conner comes back though, I'll probably not watch teh show anymore.

 

[LightPhoenix]

Contrary to yourself, I think Spike adds a lot to the show, he serves as something of a light hearted counterpoint to Angel's brooding nature. The shared history between the two works well, and their friendly enmity is fun.

If Conner comes back though, I'll probably not watch teh show anymore.

To be fair, I'm probably not being too overly fair towards Spike.

Also, if we see Connor again, I assume it's only going to be for an episode or two, or maybe as a recurring villian later in the season. I don't think he'll be a permanent cast member again, like he was before.

 

[Shadeus]

Fred has that annoyingly whiny voice and no real talent (the character, not the actress). Her role is to look pathetic and come up with a crazy trans-dimensional portal detector once every few episodes.

Actually, what Daniel said about Angel's companions being captured by the sailorvamp being lame got me thinking. A GOOD revenge would have been if he turned one of THEM into a vampire too. A kind of "returning the favor" type thing. Or a plot to turn him into Angelus. Although hanging one just to show he was serious would have been a nice twist...but they wouldn't do something like that in a filler episode like this. It would have needed a more serious twist.

 

[Crothian]

Is there a place on line to see the previews of next week's show? They never show them here.

 

[Henry]

Is there a place on line to see the previews of next week's show? They never show them here.

http://thewb.com/Shows/Episode/0,8201,||1811,00.html

Look in the top left for "trailer". But be QUICK about it!

WARNING! DO NOT READ THE PARAGRAPH BELOW THE TRAILER LINK ! SPOILER HEAVY!

 

[Umbran]

I'm talking about it being an ensemble show.

Angel didn't start as an ensemble show. It started with only three main characters - Angel, Cordy, and Doyle. It didn't really start trying to be an ensemble until... perhaps when they got Fred.

Fred isn't the fault here, though. The show has had lots of shakeups - characters coming and going, one really unpopular plot in the recent past. It takes time for writers and actors to adapt, and these guys have perhaps not had it. Handling proper attention and banter for three is a lot easier than for six or seven characters.

 

[LightPhoenix]

Angel didn't start as an ensemble show. It started with only three main characters - Angel, Cordy, and Doyle. It didn't really start trying to be an ensemble until... perhaps when they got Fred.

Fred isn't the fault here, though. The show has had lots of shakeups - characters coming and going, one really unpopular plot in the recent past. It takes time for writers and actors to adapt, and these guys have perhaps not had it. Handling proper attention and banter for three is a lot easier than for six or seven characters.

I wasn't directly blaming Fred, I was blaming the writers for introducing characters and then not being able to do anything with them. And IMO the first season wasn't all too hot... I don't feel it really picked up steam until the second season.

 

[DanMcS]

Is there a place on line to see the previews of next week's show? They never show them here.

Actually, for the past two weeks, they have been showing them here. I saw the preview for the submarine ep last week, and was so shocked I nearly fell off the couch. Not about the content of the episode, but the mere fact that they showed the preview!

I liked the backreferences in this episode. "I'm not ending up at the bottom of the ocean." "I'm not going to let some government group experiment on me." Hah.

I totally called that Angel would be the one to vamp that guy, because, well, it was obvious, so I'm not too proud, but hey, I saw the twist coming. I was happy.

So, I don't think lieutenant vampire actually had a little bit of a soul. I think he was just such a good guy before that being a vamp never sat right with him. Personality traits do carry over after the vampification; Angel became as evil as he had always really wanted to be, Spike was still a whiney git; VampWillow was eerily reminiscent of EvilWillow from season 6 of Buffy. Also, the vamps that spike made in season 7 of buffy, when spike had a soul, weren't all ensouled.

 

[LightPhoenix]

So, I don't think lieutenant vampire actually had a little bit of a soul. I think he was just such a good guy before that being a vamp never sat right with him. Personality traits do carry over after the vampification; Angel became as evil as he had always really wanted to be, Spike was still a whiney git; VampWillow was eerily reminiscent of EvilWillow from season 6 of Buffy. Also, the vamps that spike made in season 7 of buffy, when spike had a soul, weren't all ensouled.

Actually, while personality traits do seem to carry over, a being's moral disposition doesn't seem to be affected by being turned into a vampire either. Harmony is making a concerted effort to be good and Darla sacrificed herself for another... these aren't the acts of inherently evil beings. This episode, if it had any redeeming value, basically put forth the premise that most of the time vampires are evil because they choose to be evil.