Anyone else looking forward to the next Priest Classes Packet? What do you expect?

[Henadic Theologian]

Personally I think it'll have more Priest specific feats. Beyond feats and healing spells, I'm not sure what common element Clerics, Druids, and Paladins will have (Clerics and Paladin's will have channel divinity, but Druids likely won't as they are "Primal" and draw their powers from the Inner Planes and nature, instead of Gods and the Outer Planes).

Do you think anything else will come in the packet?

 

[Benjamin Olson]

I'm afraid I only anticipate the packets with dread.

My prediction is that the next one will contain five or so things I moderately like, six or so things I am unsure of, twenty or so things I will accuse of just being changed for the sake of change, one thing I find unforgiveably awful and a possible deal-breaker (which WotC will subsequently report got 90%+ approval in the survey), three french hens, two turtledoves, and 12,000 new uses of the proficiency bonus.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

I'm afraid I only anticipate the packets with dread.

My prediction is that the next one will contain five or so things I moderately like, six or so things I am unsure of, twenty or so things I will accuse of just being changed for the sake of change, one thing I find unforgiveably awful and a possible deal-breaker (which WotC will subsequently report got 90%+ approval in the survey), three french hens, two turtledoves, and 12,000 new uses of the proficiency bonus.

That is alot of things.

 

[Yaarel]

The Druid Wildshape might mechanize as a Channel Divinity. That would actually make it easier to have Druid subclasses to swap Wildshape Channel Divinity for a different Channel Divinity, like summoning.

Likewise, "Divinity" can be understood more abstractly as a sacred Community, where nature beings (Elementals, Plants, Beasts, along with living Humanoids) are members of the sacred Community.



So far, the 5e Druid has been:

• Shapeshifter
• Beast magic
• Plant magic
• Weather magic
• Elementalism
• Healer
• Fey magic

These awkwardly lack synergy in mechanics and thematic focus in concept.

Plant magic might work better when understood as an additional Element. Weather magic is Air-Water Elementalism. Then Fire and Earth. Meanwhile, Beast magic and Shapeshifter work well together. Perhaps Beast includes Human too, whence a Shapeshifter that impersonates Humanoids. Living animals also relate to Healing. To take on Elemental forms instead of Beast forms is also possible.



Possibly, a future UA will reorganize the Druid features, in order to allow more mechanical specialization and thematic focus.

 

[Yaarel]

The Druid − at least the ones that focus on the Fire Element − needs Fireball and other Fire spells.

This means all spells need a vigorous doublechecking to ensure each spell in the same Spell Slot is roughly equal in power to the other spells in the same Slot.

It is wrong design when the Druid cant have Fireball because it is too powerful. If a Fire Druid has a 3rd Slot, Fireball needs to be a normal thematically appropriate choice of Druid spells.

Probably, Fireball needs to reduce to 6d6 fire damage. But 7d6 might be ok, since it doesnt really do anything else except damage. And, the Druid should have this spell.

Generally speaking, many Druid spells need to be more powerful or demote to a lower Slot, in order to balance better with the other spells at the same slot. Consider the horrible spells like Sunbeam, Fire Storm, and no-just-no Storm of Vengeance.

Many Druid-accessible spells need tweaking or outright rewrites.

 

[mellored]

This means all spells need a vigorous doublechecking to ensure each spell in the same Spell Slot is roughly equal in power to the other spells in the same Slot.

I disagree.

I don't see any reason why one spell list can't be weaker than the others. And then classes that use that list get stronger other features.

I.e. wizards power is all in the spells. But druids power is half spells and half other.

Might want to make it a little more clear from class descriptions that druids are more gish than straight casters, but I don't see a problem with that.

 

[Yaarel]

I disagree.

I don't see any reason why one spell list can't be weaker than the others. And then classes that use that list get stronger other features.

I.e. wizards power is all in the spells. But druids power is half spells and half other.

Might want to make it a little more clear from class descriptions that druids are more gish than straight casters, but I don't see a problem with that.

Spell slots are a fundamental machinery of the D&D gaming engine. Especially when deciding how powerful the high tier features should be.

When the spells get imbalanced the entire game convolutes and self-destructs. 3e died this way.

The spell slots mean something.

Most of the full casters use the same slots: Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Bard, and Sorcerer. The class balance calibrates arounds these spell slots. The balance between casters and noncasters depend on these slots.

The spells that go into a spell slot need a standard amount of power appropriate to it.

 

[mellored]

The spells that go into a spell slot need a standard amount of power appropriate to it.

Why have a druid at all if your just going to cast fireball?

Classes need to be different, or there is no point in having them. Having all spells the same doesn't do that.

 

[Yaarel]

Why have a druid at all if your just going to cast fireball?

Classes need to be different, or there is no point in having them. Having all spells the same doesn't do that.

Because some concepts overlap.

Bard has healing-shapeshifting, enchantment, but not elemental.

Druid has healing-shapeshifting, elemental, but not enchantment.

And so on.

 

[Yaarel]

The Wizard class needs more thematic focus.

The most important themes for the Wizard class are:

• Elemental
• Force (Magic Missile, Mage Hand, Fly, Arcane Armor, Shield, Tiny Hut, Wall of Force, "dunamancy", etc.)
• Illusion

The Wizard should probably lose Necromancy (death, fiend) and give it to Cleric and Warlock. Lose Enchantment and give it to Bard and Warlock. And lose Divination (prescience, teleportation) and give it to Cleric and Bard.

The Wizard focuses thematically on the magic of creation, including Illusion in the sense of altering reality.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

The Wizard class needs more thematic focus.

The most important themes for the Wizard class are:

• Elemental
• Force (Magic Missile, Mage Hand, Fly, Arcane Armor, Shield, Tiny Hut, Wall of Force, "dunomancy", etc.)
• Illusion

The Wizard should probably lose Necromancy (death, fiend) and give it to Cleric and Warlock. Lose Enchantment and give it to Bard and Warlock. And lose Divination (prescience, teleportation) and give it to Cleric and Bard.

The Wizard focuses thematically on the magic of creation, including Illusion in the sense of altering reality.

Never going to happen.

 

[Yaarel]

Never going to happen.

I hope it does anyway!

I think it is ok for the Wizard to figure out how to cast other spells that the character finds as treasure. Collecting scrolls and spellbooks, and libraries is part of its flavor.

But the automatic known spells that come when the Wizard levels up should only be: Elemental, "Dunamancy", and Illusion.

In 1e, the Wizard was the every-mage class. But that just isnt true in 5e, and hasnt been since 3e.

The Wizard needs a tighter focus, just like other fullcaster classes do.

 

[aco175]

When the spells get imbalanced the entire game convolutes and self-destructs. 3e died this way.

I do not recall the spell lists being the self-destruct button of 3e. If fireball is a level 3 spell for wizards and a level 4 slot for druids, wouldn't that be just another way to provide balance to the classes. Could make druid a half-caster and do the same thing if we wanted to leave spell levels alone though.

I predict the new packet will be full of feats and new ways to use your channel divinity. I can see changing paladins some to give them a channel divinity ability and cut down on spells. It seems most spells just get used for smite anyways.

 

[tetrasodium]

I do not recall the spell lists being the self-destruct button of 3e. If fireball is a level 3 spell for wizards and a level 4 slot for druids, wouldn't that be just another way to provide balance to the classes. Could make druid a half-caster and do the same thing if we wanted to leave spell levels alone though.

I predict the new packet will be full of feats and new ways to use your channel divinity. I can see changing paladins some to give them a channel divinity ability and cut down on spells. It seems most spells just get used for smite anyways.

Different classes getting shared spells at different spell levels was a huge loss for classes that factored those spells more towards their core identity. Seeing shared spells shift levels about some in the spell lists would be a good thing

 

[Mephista]

Druids. I expect druids. Hopefully in a more interesting package so that they'll not be the least played class by a mile anymore.

I'm expecting that we'll get some more rules on healing and Exhaustion/yo-yo combat. I get the feeling that bringing someone back up from Unconscious is going to have an exhaustion penalty now. Which means that bigger healing amounts will be necessary to keep them from piling up exhaustion super fast. (hint - All that channel divinity healing has to have a use!)

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I can see fireball going down to 6d6, but having an evoker be able to up the damage to 8d6.

 

[FireLance]

I think we should go the route of baking some sort of once per round damage bonus into general character progression and as class abilities (such as the cleric's Blessed Strikes).

Say, at 5th level, every character gets a +1d8 damage bonus to one target the first time they deal damage with a weapon or a spell on their turn. This increases to +2d8 at 11th level and +3d8 at 17th level.

This immediately removes the need for cantrips to scale in damage and resolves the dissonance that cantrips deal more damage than spells cast using a 1st-level spell slot at high levels.

Class abilities can then modify this damage bonus further. Say, a wizard can apply this damage bonus to all creatures within the area of effect of their spells instead of just one. A fireball can now deal just 6d6 damage, but one cast by a wizard will be more damaging than one cast by a druid.

 

[Yaarel]

I can see fireball going down to 6d6, but having an evoker be able to up the damage to 8d6.

Yeah, if the point is to balance the Class, then mess with the Class.

Dont mess with the balance of the Spell Slots.

 

[tetrasodium]

Yeah, if the point is to balance the Class, then mess with the Class.

Dont mess with the balance of the Spell Slots.

Why assume that the spell is not a probablem? Why assume that having the base spell elevated to where evoker & similar specialists should maybe take it won't cause a problem for he drusts & specializeds of all types?

 

[Yaarel]

Why assume that the spell is not a probablem? Why assume that having the base spell elevated to where evoker & similar specialists should maybe take it won't cause a problem for he drusts & specializeds of all types?

Why not make Fireball a Cantrip at will?

Why not make Wish a Slot 1 Spell?