D&D 5E Assassins, Alignment, and Archetypes

[Cap'n Kobold]

Improved crit range doesn't seem to fit for me. When I think of assassins, I think of precision and certainty, not flailing around hoping for a lucky hit.

How about these two abilities:
Lethal Techniques:
If an attack of the executioner's would leave a target with less remaining hit points than the executioner's level, the target is reduced to -1 hit points instead. For the purposes of this ability, any poison damage taken from a situation that the executioner arranged is also considered an attack.
This ability works against Humanoids and Beasts. At level 5 it works against any creature not considered an Undead or Construct. At level 11 it works against any creature.

Certain Death
As an action, the executioner makes an Intelligence (Investigation) or (Insight) against a target that they have observed for one round. If they are currently in melee combat with the target, they may make this check as a bonus action. If successful, then the next time the executioner damages the target with an attack or with poison, the damage is increased by 10x the executioner's proficiency bonus.
The executioner regains the ability to deal this extra damage after a short or long rest.
-(I'm unsure of what the check should be opposed by on the target's side. Any thoughts?)

 

[TheCosmicKid]

-(I'm unsure of what the check should be opposed by on the target's side. Any thoughts?)

AC. I'm working on a scholar class that "looks for weaknesses", and it makes Int checks vs AC because that's very conveniently the number that represents how many weaknesses the creature has.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Improved crit range doesn't seem to fit for me. When I think of assassins, I think of precision and certainty, not flailing around hoping for a lucky hit.

How about these two abilities:
Lethal Techniques:
If an attack of the executioner's would leave a target with less remaining hit points than the executioner's level, the target is reduced to -1 hit points instead. For the purposes of this ability, any poison damage taken from a situation that the executioner arranged is also considered an attack.
This ability works against Humanoids and Beasts. At level 5 it works against any creature not considered an Undead or Construct. At level 11 it works against any creature.

Certain Death
As an action, the executioner makes an Intelligence (Investigation) or (Insight) against a target that they have observed for one round. If they are currently in melee combat with the target, they may make this check as a bonus action. If successful, then the next time the executioner damages the target with an attack or with poison, the damage is increased by 10x the executioner's proficiency bonus.
The executioner regains the ability to deal this extra damage after a short or long rest.
-(I'm unsure of what the check should be opposed by on the target's side. Any thoughts?)

Those are nice. I'd remove the type restriction for Lethal technique but the target must be living.

I'd go for a Dex save instead against a 8+Prof+Int DC, like, your enemy cannot block your hit, its must avoid it at all cost for a chance to survive the vicious attack.

 

[Fenris-77]

I'm not sure how observation and a tactical approach to combat equal 'flailing around'. It could just as easily be read as "four times as likely to land a telling blow due to precision and planning". Keep in mind that it's also just one mechanic and it applies to all the assassins attacks. Part of the program was to make a more DPR assassin, so single-use nova abilities, while cool, don't really hit the sweet spot. I'd layer on another couple of abilities to synergize with that one. The crit idea also emphasizes mobility, which fits very well with the general assassin image we're building.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think crits are the way to go personally, although DBWs shrouds idea has some merit as well. I think it would be fun if the class really rewarded tactical play. My thought there was to give them expanded crits, extended when attacking with advantage, but also give ways to extend the range further. For example, if the class has a 19-20 crit range generally, it could be 18-20 with advantage, and 17-20 with both advantage and a condition on the enemy (prone, stunned, whatever). That would force the character to really work with the party to get full range out of his abilities. Provided the class doesn't have an immense ability to stack damage dice (although some synergy there is cool) and is generally using light weapons, I don't think the DPR would be out hand even at the 17-20 range. Keeping the emphasis on mobility and exploiting weaknesses and tactical openings created by other characters seems like a fun character to play.

I like and prefer this.
Shrouds, btw, would be something you can max out in round one if you have stealth and/or surprise, and then you have to work to build up in subsequent rounds. Full shrouds could expand crit range, or that could be separate. So, the class incentivizes using stealth as a combat tactic, and gives tricks for gaining stealth.

Maybe you can apply more shrouds with a bonus action if have advantage against them, and get advantage when the target is frightened, poisoned, or charmed by you or your ally?

These would all synergies to make you lethal as hell when you can plan for it, and competent when you can’t.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Those are nice. I'd remove the type restriction for Lethal technique but the target must be living.

That is probably better, but at higher levels, the character should be able to use it on anything to prevent it from becoming too situational.

I'd go for a Dex save instead against a 8+Prof+Int DC, like, your enemy cannot block your hit, its must avoid it at all cost for a chance to survive the vicious attack.

The intent is that the executioner can continue to observe and make checks until they discover how to make a deadly strike, and then kill their target. Its why the damage is what refreshes after a rest rather than the entire ability itself.
I don't think that a Dex check fits. Its not some armour-piercing attack, it is working out the best way to kill someone specific. An executioner could observe from stealth or just while in public until they make the check for example.

I wasn't sure whether a save-or-die ability would be appropriate, but that would probably have to be higher-level, and I thought the ability to pick a target and kill it was iconic enough that it should be available to the class at lower levels. I decided on 1/short rest because if it wasn't restricted, it would not be able to be as powerful and decisive. I wondered about making it an automatic crit, but that would simply encourage use of greatswords and similar, and I wanted this ability to be close to as deadly with a dagger as it was with a glaive.

Lethal techniques is an effective damage boost for murdering through mooks. Certain Death is for picking a target that you decide needs to die.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That is probably better, but at higher levels, the character should be able to use it on anything to prevent it from becoming too situational.


The intent is that the executioner can continue to observe and make checks until they discover how to make a deadly strike, and then kill their target. Its why the damage is what refreshes after a rest rather than the entire ability itself.
I don't think that a Dex check fits. Its not some armour-piercing attack, it is working out the best way to kill someone specific. An executioner could observe from stealth or just while in public until they make the check for example.

I wasn't sure whether a save-or-die ability would be appropriate, but that would probably have to be higher-level, and I thought the ability to pick a target and kill it was iconic enough that it should be available to the class at lower levels. I decided on 1/short rest because if it wasn't restricted, it would not be able to be as powerful and decisive. I wondered about making it an automatic crit, but that would simply encourage use of greatswords and similar, and I wanted this ability to be close to as deadly with a dagger as it was with a glaive.

Lethal techniques is an effective damage boost for murdering through mooks. Certain Death is for picking a target that you decide needs to die.

I’d make it only require a check during combat. If you can study the target for a minute or more, they’re yours. In my model, this would be advantage on all attacks against the target, and max shroud damage on a crit, probably. With no shroud dice, simply adding dice is the best bet. Any multiplication of dmg just multiplied incentive to use bigger dice.

what about a feature that lets the assassin deal more damage with light, concealable, on-brand weapons? Directly incentivize sticking to the preferred weapon list?

although, I’m fine with weapons up to and including the longsword and rapier, spear, even axes.

 

[Fenris-77]

If we want to wreak havoc with extended crit ranges perhaps keeping the weapons to a d6 or less makes sense? We could tie the class abilities to light weapons, which gives some choice but keeps it at a d6.

Shrouds could work with the extended crit too, for sure. As I mentioned above, if we tie them to observe your enemy, that could either by with surveillance on the first round, or after a round or two of observation in combat. Both make sense for the same mechanic. If those dice are d10s it makes the class hit pretty hard. The number of d10s could stack with level too. Or, alternatively, the crit multiplier could move past x2 to x3 or even x4 at tier 4. With light weapons that's not out of hand IMO, so long as there aren't too many d10s and you can't stack them.

Another thought I had, especially if we stick to light weapons, is that the class's attacks could also involve a condition - 'bleed' which could do additional damage every round unless treated. There's all sorts of shenanigans we could get up to there. It also fits nicely inside the 'attack the weak spots' vibe we're headed for. For example, what if every successful hit added a bleed die, call it a d4. That would help drop mooks in spots, and if they stacked it could really pump the Assassin's impact on longer combats versus bigger targets. It would also make it worthwhile to really press the mobility aspect, because there's an actual mechanical reason not to focus fire, especially against mobs. Anyway, it seems like a very cool and different kind of character to play in melee.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If we want to wreak havoc with extended crit ranges perhaps keeping the weapons to a d6 or less makes sense? We could tie the class abilities to light weapons, which gives some choice but keeps it at a d6.

Shrouds could work with the extended crit too, for sure. As I mentioned above, if we tie them to observe your enemy, that could either by with surveillance on the first round, or after a round or two of observation in combat. Both make sense for the same mechanic. If those dice are d10s it makes the class hit pretty hard. The number of d10s could stack with level too. Or, alternatively, the crit multiplier could move past x2 to x3 or even x4 at tier 4. With light weapons that's not out of hand IMO, so long as there aren't too many d10s and you can't stack them.

Another thought I had, especially if we stick to light weapons, is that the class's attacks could also involve a condition - 'bleed' which could do additional damage every round unless treated. There's all sorts of shenanigans we could get up to there. It also fits nicely inside the 'attack the weak spots' vibe we're headed for. For example, what if every successful hit added a bleed die, call it a d4. That would help drop mooks in spots, and if they stacked it could really pump the Assassin's impact on longer combats versus bigger targets. It would also make it worthwhile to really press the mobility aspect, because there's an actual mechanical reason not to focus fire, especially against mobs. Anyway, it seems like a very cool and different kind of character to play in melee.

I really like the Bleed idea. Especially if a bleeding target has their speed slowed. Really nice way to get past mooks to your real target.

I don’t dig crit multipliers so much. Extra dice on a crit, I could get behind, or maybe steal 4e’s brutal mechanic and reroll any 1 or 2 until they are higher than 1 or 2 on shroud damage. That would raise the average, and do so even more on a crit. Another option would be to double the Lethal threshold on a crit?

I also still like the idea of gaining a “destroy target” ability where if you deal half their HP in damage and they are CR [n] or lower, they must save or drop to 0hp. Maybe that could be what makes crits special?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I've tried stacking effects like 4E shrouds and found them kind of frustrating in 5E play. It's just too slow when the average combat is about three to five rounds. I suggest instead a single, binary shroud effect. Especially if you can shroud multiple creatures at once -- nobody needs to track all those numbers.

Focused killer. 1 shroud target at a time, for sure. Also, the idea is that you can place a shroud when you roll initiative and can see an enemy within 100ft. If you are hidden from them, or they are surprised, frightened, poisoned, or charmed by an ally of yours, you can place more than 1 shroud (possibly full shrouds, we will see how things look). On your turn, as a bonus action, you can add a shroud or move your shrouds to a new target. If you are hidden, or if you otherwise have advantage on attack rolls against them, you can place up to 2 shrouds instead of 1.

So, you aren’t waiting 3 rounds in to use the shroud, you’re doing a shroud Attack the first time you hit in a fight.

This is hella OP unless it's on an encounter limit, has some other resource cost, or is conditional.

I disagree, but I’d be fine with a resource cost for the bonus action Dodge. I would make the base class have a disengage related feature with a low action economy cost, though. Riposting a miss as a reaction I discuss further below.

To me, these mechanics say "different than the rogue for the sake of being different" rather than "actually different than the rogue". They're still telling the same story as Cunning Action and Uncanny Dodge, they're just using different rules to to it. You see where I'm coming from?

I was more thinking about the monk, there. The class needs defensive features, and multiple good uses for bonus actions, and light skirmishers in 5e have bonus action tricks. The rogue at will, the monk with Ki.

If the hook for the assassin is going to be observation and preparation, maybe instead the assassin can expend a shroud to turn a hit from the target into a miss, because they've figured out the attack pattern. Find some way to tie the slipperiness directly into preparedness.

I like that. But I’d still make it a riposte, not a parry. Maybe a reaction to try to parry, and spend a shroud to riposte if successful.

I would avoid too many "do thing when you drop a guy" features because they can be frustrating in fights without cannon fodder to trigger them. In my mind's eye, a solo boss fight should be a place where the assassin shines and a swarm of mooks should give them some trouble, not the other way around. Shrouds, burst damage, poison, other single-target debuffs, these are the sorts of mechanics that reflect that fantasy to me.

Don't get me wrong. My own assassin design does the Assassin's Creed thing. It's a super cool thing. But it's their 20th-level ability, a cherry on top of the class, not a substitute for Extra Attack or other bread-and-butter DPR source.

I think 1 such feature is probably fine, but it could also be modified to include “or when you crit against your shroud target”, to make it also good against bosses.