D&D (2024) Bastion rules: every pub owner is at least 13th level

[Micah Sweet]

Can anyone build a caste given enough time and money, given that the option to do so is explicitly a feature fighters gain at 9th level? I mean, maybe they can, but I don’t think that’s at all clear from the rules (of 1e) as-written.

Of course they can. Why the heck couldn't they? They may be other factors involved (perhaps they need the permission of the landowner, for example), but the building of such a place certainly isn't level gated.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I would be find it they said the level requirements were suggestions for balance reasons. Then they could list the special features like:

PUB
Bastion Facility, Typically Level 13
Prerequisite: None
Space: Roomy
Hirelings: 1
Order: Research (1d8 BP)

Though I think a Pub should require more than 1 hireling

The world typically apparently only refers to alignment in WotC 5e.

 

[Professor Murder]

TBH, I have been waiting for a cash sink for PCs as they pass the mid lvl mark.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't own Xanthar's. Looks like I'll have to check it out.

It's in my opinion the single best book to date outside of the core three.

 

[dave2008]

The world typically apparently only refers to alignment in WotC 5e.

What's good for alignment is good for bastions evidently!

 

[dave2008]

It's in my opinion the single best book to date outside of the core three.

However, there are not more rules (downtime or otherwise) for strongholds/businesses, etc. in Xanthar's which is what @Epic Meepo was asking about.

 

[Umbran]

Personally, if there are going to be level requirements, I’d prefer them to be hard requirements rather than suggestions.

D&D rules are all suggestions anyway.

Some folks seem to be finding Bastions lacking for their lack of interaction with other parts of the system. The more the Bastion system interacts with other parts of the game, the more important those level limits are apt to be.

 

[Charlaquin]

The fact that you could make a different choice means that any choice you do make is arbitrary? That's ridiculous. Have you ever considered that the choice was made based on worldbuilding considerations, or is that so irrelevant to you that it doesn't even count as a reason?

Worldbuilding is arbitrary. You can build a world any way you please. That’s literally what arbitrary means - based on whim, preference, or random chance, rather than a system of rules.

 

[Maxperson]

This is what the BECMI edition Expert Rules from 1983 say about fighters building castles:

"A fighter with enough money may build a castle regardless of level. When a fighter reaches Name level, the character is eligible for selection as a Baron (or Baroness)."

But neither my example nor yours is quoting rules published by WotC. The historical state of the game 40 years ago doesn't reflect any changes made since WotC took the helm.

The last dedicated stronghold-related WotC product that I'm aware of is the Stronghold Builders' Guidebook from 3.x Edition. On page 4, that sourcebook says:

"Characters with enough gold and magic at their disposal can construct massive fortresses limited only by their imagination." No minimum level requirements are mentioned anywhere in the guidebook.

So, per WotC's most recent, stronghold-centric product, there are no minimum level requirements for building a stronghold. The 2024 DMG isn't required to follow this precedent, of course. But why build upon game mechanics from the 1980's when you can at least use something published in this century as a basis for your new rules system?

Yeah. Someone brought up 1e specifically, which is why I pulled out those rules. I haven't had level limits for something like that since, well, 1e.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't know if you have me on ignore or something, but you don't seem to respond to my posts. The DMG already has rules for building a stronghold at any level (just takes money). The difference is you don't get the bastion benefits. The bastion rules do not replace the rules in the DMG, they augment them.

In post #54 of this thread I provided some of the tables from the DMG. There is more information in the DMG too (and PHB).

EDIT: FYI Xanthar's doesn't really add anything to the guidelines in the DMG and PHB for building and running an establishment. It covers other downtime activities though.

You're quoting him, so he can't have you on ignore.