D&D (2024) Best and Worst Classes Lvl 1-10.

[UngeheuerLich]

Great axe changes ath though. Average damage is 6.5 vs 7 plus the rerolled. Less than greatsword.

Average damage 6.5 or 7 does not matter. If you don't take GWF, no problem. I took archery with my build.

White room greatsword, real game PAM imho. Mail or great axe tbh over greatsword.

I took glaive because of interaction between mage slayer and graze. But you can always switch to halberd.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

He uses Graze for both.
I really don't know how you would calculate the benefits of Reach.

Cleave is easier with a halberd because you can reach more enemies.
Yes it is difficult to factor in. Why you should take treantmonk calculations with a grain of salt. As he says himself. It is just a rough guideline.
Also graze is especially good if you don't have regular advantage and face higher AC opponents. And only single targets. And since treantmonk in his current videos only looked at single target damage, cleave was not wven considered.

Which means the fighter is at the bottom.

Nah. The paladin has a hard time integrating regular bonus action attacks into their builds because of smites. After level 11, maybe it is worth it. But not clear cut. For the ranger it really depends how you can manage keeping concentration up.

 

[Zardnaar]

He uses Graze for both.
I really don't know how you would calculate the benefits of Reach.

Which means the fighter is at the bottom.

You can't white room PAM. In general I think it's better than GWM arguments vary by class and DM.

 

[Zardnaar]

Cleave is easier with a halberd because you can reach more enemies.
Yes it is difficult to factor in. Why you should take treantmonk calculations with a grain of salt. As he says himself. It is just a rough guideline.
Also graze is especially good if you don't have regular advantage and face higher AC opponents. And only single targets. And since treantmonk in his current videos only looked at single target damage, cleave was not wven considered.

Nah. The paladin has a hard time integrating regular bonus action attacks into their builds because of smites. After level 11, maybe it is worth it. But not clear cut. For the ranger it really depends how you can manage keeping concentration up.

Yup tripping over bonus action is an issue.

Hence fighters benefit more.

 

[Zardnaar]

One reason I don't rate graze that much. My PCs are buffing a lot. Knocking stuff prone or paralysis. All of that buffs accuracy. Action Surge for example is often used after they or monk knock an opponent prone. Someone gets paralyzed action surge.

It's kind of like Paladins using smites on crits. Damage will be higher than white room, graze isn't that relevant and scales poorly anyway.

And white room won't catch reach, cleave and reaction attacks. Real game I think PAM will outdamage gwm (probably take both tbh). If it doesn't damage is close enough it doesn't matter.

On fighters at least. Barbarian rage applies to cleave and bonus action attack so they're a decent option.

Other classes more likely to use Greataxe or Maul or dual wield.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

One reason I don't rate graze that much. My PCs are buffing a lot. Knocking stuff prone or paralysis. All of that buffs accuracy. Action Surge for example is often used after they or monk knock an opponent prone. Someone gets paralyzed action surge.

It's kind of like Paladins using smites on crits. Damage will be higher than white room, graze isn't that relevant and scales poorly anyway.

And white room won't catch reach, cleave and reaction attacks. Real game I think PAM will outdamage gwm (probably take both tbh). If it doesn't damage is close enough it doesn't matter.

GWM works on long bows. That is something one should not neglect.

Yes, with 14 Dex, to hit is a bit worse. But dealing some damage at 150ft range is better than not dealing some damage at 150ft range.

Especially nice with trip attack.

I am torn with PAM. And I can see either a ranger or an eldritch knight* with shillelagh using quarterstaff and polearm master without GWM.

*monks benefit from PAM too. The reaction attack works. Sometimes attacking with the staff instead of an unarmed strike might also be benefical. There also is the question if you use monk unarmed damage for the offhand strike (probably not, but I'd probably allow it), so you can benefit from magic properties or even a mastery if you learnt one with the BA attack. It is debatable if it is worth it though.

Overall I am really unsure about the new possibilities. I don't have enough experience woth 2024 characters to actually say what works in actual play and what not. And until we see the new monsters, I guess everything is a bit speculative.

 

[Zardnaar]

GWM works on long bows. That is something one should not neglect.

Yes, with 14 Dex, to hit is a bit worse. But dealing some damage at 150ft range is better than not dealing some damage at 150ft range.

Especially nice with trip attack.

I am torn with PAM. And I can see either a ranger or an eldritch knight* with shillelagh using quarterstaff and polearm master without GWM.

*monks benefit from PAM too. The reaction attack works. Sometimes attacking with the staff instead of an unarmed strike might also be benefical. There also is the question if you use monk unarmed damage for the offhand strike (probably not, but I'd probably allow it), so you can benefit from magic properties or even a mastery if you learnt one with the BA attack. It is debatable if it is worth it though.

Overall I am really unsure about the new possibilities. I don't have enough experience woth 2024 characters to actually say what works in actual play and what not. And until we see the new monsters, I guess everything is a bit speculative.

With GWM working on bows I think medium armor on fighters for exampke is better.

17 strength, 14 con 14 dex or something similar.

Treantmonk missed hex on sorcerer andShillelagh EK so there's also that. Wife and myself are looking at warcaster and both touched feats

Vex+nik is good real game. Espicially good if you can boost the first vex attack eg inspiration or precise strike.

For blasters anyone who gets scorching ray is viable. Anyone can get chromatic orb and hex via feat. Chromatic Orb is your lightning bolt or fireball replacement. Sorcerers the best though dragon sorcerer best of the sorcerers. Chromatic Orb is comparable to chain lightning later on better if you can boost accuracy eg bless, faerie fire etc.

Transmute scorching ray (lightning) roll play as Palpatine it's force lightning.

 

[mellored]

Probably vengeance due to access to easy advantage, and hunter's mark on top of divine favor with a bit of setup. Especially after level 6 where you can keep concenteation more easily.

Vengeance's advantage doesn't stack with other Advantage, nor will it work with Cleave.

Devotion with Cha Shillelagh quarter staff (topple) and shield, with Inspiring Leader and +2 Cha, using Shining Smite. Seems like it would be pretty great. With lots of indirect damage from boosting the party.

Pick up resilient Con and heavy armor master at higher levels.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Vengeance's advantage doesn't stack with other Advantage, nor will it work with Cleave.

Yes. Why are you saying that. Never said it does.

Devotion with Cha Shillelagh quarter staff (topple) and shield, with Inspiring Leader and +2 Cha, using Shining Smite. Seems like it would be pretty great. With lots of indirect damage from boosting the party.

Yes. Devotion is good. Especially with high charisma.

Pick up resilient Con and heavy armor master at higher levels.

If you settle on shillelagh, yes that is a good option.

If you don't want to use only a staff, it is a lot harder to afford.

 

[FrogReaver]

The problem I have with cleave is that it’s only once per turn.

Also, I don’t read the cleave attack as being part of your attack action. It literally calls it an extra attack and occurs if you hit a creature with a melee attack roll using this weapon. Meaning it wouldn’t benefit from GWM by my reading but it would allow you to use it on your turn and on an OA.

Its also not clear that if you had a great axe and halbred whether you could swap weapons after your first attack and apply cleave with both, assuming you have extra attack and hit with both attacks.

That said you get more than one mastery.

If I’m a fighter I’m probabaly having one graze and one cleave weapon and one topple weapon.

If I’m a barbarian I’m going for cleave and topple since I can make my own advantage easily.

If I’m a Paladin probably cleave and topple.

If im a great weapon ranger probably cleave and graze.