Boots of Striding and Springing got nerfed bad

[Lord Pendragon]

I think the new BoSS are reasonably priced. If we never saw the old BoSS, I think people wouldn't be complaining about them being weak at all.

I've heard this argument before. Though I respect your opinion, I can say with at least moderate certainty that in the case of at least one person--myself--there would still have been a problem with the current boots, even if the original had never existed.

For a PC with a 20' movement, 10' may be wonderful. For a PC with a 30' move, it's nearly pointless. The same was true with the original boots, in fact. I had two characters in a year long game. One took the boots and was very happy. The other was waiting to pick up Boots of Speed.

Regardless, 5500gp is too much for 10ft. of movement. I'd have put it at 3000gp or so, and it'd be fine. Which is what I shall do, if I'm ever convinced to DM 3.5 instead of 3.0.

(Or wait another 2 years for 4.0. )

 

[randcortin]

Originally posted by Lord Pendragon
Regardless, 5500gp is too much for 10ft. of movement. I'd have put it at 3000gp or so, and it'd be fine.

That's what I'm talking about. They reduced the speed by 2/3, they should have at least reduced the price by 1/2. That much gold for so little speed increase just isn't worth it.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Regardless, 5500gp is too much for 10ft. of movement. I'd have put it at 3000gp or so, and it'd be fine.

So did they:

+10ft of movement: 3000
+ 5 bonus to jump: 2500
--------------------------------
Price: 5500

Note that the +10 ft of movement usually give you +4 to your jump checks, so you actually get +9 to jump.

And +10 speed is far from pointless, even if you have 30 ft to begin with.

Another reason for me NOT to convert to 3.5 I now have the PHB for 3.5 and i -dont- like the changes. At all. Any of them.

Come on. You can't tell me that you don't like a single change. I don't believe that you prefer the old harm spell (no save, all hp but 1d4 gone). You cannot really be serious when you say the old ranger was a better class then the new one. I'm sure you don't mean that the new jump skill (which is far easier to play) is worse than the old. I won't hear that you don't like the combat section, which is far clearer than the old. You cannot tell me that you don't like the new format of the spell lists, with all spells with expensive components marked, or that spell chains are now together (I always hated to have to look up several spell descriptions on several pages).

You may tell me that you don't like the majority of the changes, but not that you don't like any of the changes.

 

[Fedifensor]

Other options are to craft a use-activated item of expeditious retreat, or save your money and pay through the nose for a perma-expeditious retreat set of boots, say "Greater Boots of Striding and Springing?"

Boots of Striding and Springing, Improved:
These boots increase the wearer's base land speed by 30 feet. In addition to this striding ability (considered an enhancement bonus), these boots allow the wearer to make great leaps. She can jump with a +10 competence bonus on Jump checks (not including the +12 bonus from the wearer's increased land speed).
Faint transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Wonderous Item, expeditious retreat, creator must have 10 ranks in the Jump skill; Price 22,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

Craft notes:
Skill: Jump +10, cost is 10 x 10 x 100 = 10000
Spell: expeditious retreat, spell level 1, caster level 1 (no benefit from choosing a higher caster level), cost of 1 x 1 x 2000, duration is in rounds, 2000 x 4 = 8000, second ability in single item slot, 8000 x 1.5 = 12000
Caster level for the item is 7th because you need to be at least 7th level to have 10 ranks of Jump.

How's that?

 

[frankthedm]

Boots of Striding and Springing, Improved:
These boots increase the wearer's base land speed by 30 feet. In addition to this striding ability (considered an enhancement bonus), these boots allow the wearer to make great leaps. She can jump with a +10 competence bonus on Jump checks (not including the +12 bonus from the wearer's increased land speed).
Faint transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Wonderous Item, expeditious retreat, creator must have 10 ranks in the Jump skill; Price 22,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

Craft notes:
Skill: Jump +10, cost is 10 x 10 x 100 = 10000
Spell: expeditious retreat, spell level 1, caster level 1 (no benefit from choosing a higher caster level), cost of 1 x 1 x 2000, duration is in rounds, 2000 x 4 = 8000, second ability in single item slot, 8000 x 1.5 = 12000
Caster level for the item is 7th because you need to be at least 7th level to have 10 ranks of Jump.

How's that?

Cheap at twice the price in a game where combat tactics matter. Slightly less usefull in games where the orcs seem to be able to gate in at charge range.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I think the price is wrong, if you go by the formular:

If you have several different abilities, the higher cost is to be multiplied by 2. So you'd end up with 28000. (The 1.5 is when you have an item in an unusual slot, like boots of brilliance).

 

[CyberSpyder]

From the SRD:

Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don’t take up space on a character’s body use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus one-half the value of any other abilities.
Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that do take up a space on a character’s body each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.

Seems like 1.5 is the right multiplier.

 

[LordAO]

One of the reasons my characters stick with Light armor is that losing 10 ft from your movement really, really sucks. Adding 10 ft just plain rocks. This allows characters to make up for the lost speed from armor or loads, allows halflings, gnomes, and dwarves to keep up with their comrades, and gives those who want agility a nice edge. And after playing with some Barbarians and Monks I can tell you that an extra 10 ft base movement is nothing to sniff at.

I, personally felt that the old boots were way overpowered. The old boots were so good that everyone I ever knew either had them or did everything they could to get them. With this change, I imagine that they will still be popular yet I might actually see some diversity in the character's footwear.

And don't go accusing me of being a 3.5 loyalist. This is actually one of the few changes that I've liked.

 

[Lotus]

The old boots were so good that everyone I ever knew either had them or did everything they could to get them.

And that's why so many people are complaining about the change -- it affects almost everyone.

Boots of Speed are looking more attractive now though.

A good compromise would be Boots of Striding... +10 to movement, no +5 to jump, but make them cheaper.

 

[IndyPendant]

Actually, Expeditious Retreat has a duration of 1 min/level, so the Boots would only have a final x2 multiplier, for a final cost of 4000gp. Which is way too underpriced for the benefit, under the new limited maneuverability of 3.5e.

But I'd like to toss a question at you: this is for an NPC barbarian I'm 'playing' as part of the party in a sub-campaign of mine to give the players some tankage they're missing, so I'm not certain how objective I am here. : ) Boots of Expeditious Retreat, at their calculated cost of 4000gp, are obviously way undercosted. But what about Boots of Striding (without the Springing)? They would cost 1x1x2000gp, and with a spell duration of 1 hour/level, they have no additional multipliers. Final cost: 2000gp. Now, I think this is slightly undercosted for a +10 bonus to move--but I also think only slightly, and it wouldn't be broken (as in, everybody wanting a pair) to offer them for that price.

Do you agree? And if not, why?