(Buffy) Concerning Buffy, the Vampire Slayer

Requiem said:
Personally the quality of Buffy episodes have decreased somewhat over the past few seasons..Season 4 nearly killed my interest in Buffy entirely..her constant whining...bah!!

Really? I liked this last season, though I do agree that S4-5 were pretty sucktastic. The Initiative was just silly, and I was quite displeased with the resolution of the Glory plotline. Also, they chipped Spikey. :( :mad: IMO, Buffy took the easy way out when she sacrificed herself to close the portal. I would have much preferred to see her make the decision to kill Dawn (or not) and live with the consequences of her actions.

Speaking of, does anyone have any idea why Dawn was so obnoxious this season?

-Tiberius
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Tiberius said:

Speaking of, does anyone have any idea why Dawn was so obnoxious this season?

-Tiberius

Because she's a teen age girl with no parents, sister is the slayer, and she's actually "The Key". I'm not sure anyone can proper empathise with what she's going through.
 

Tiberius said:
I would have much preferred to see her make the decision to kill Dawn (or not) and live with the consequences of her actions.

Speaking of, does anyone have any idea why Dawn was so obnoxious this season?

Good lord yes. I've never liked Dawn... she's either whining, getting into trouble for being stupid, lying, stealing, or pouting.

Buffy should have tossed her into the energy vortex and had an end to it. At that point, the entire 'Dawn is my sister' thing probably would have turned into 'Dawn, who?'

It also would have dispensed with the entire 'depressed dead/alive buffy' plot and the 'let's have tons of graphic sex with spike' plot that were so (bleh) pervasive in the next season.

-F
 

Oh, I dunno - I think the "Spike Sex" storyline was pretty entertaining in a screwed up sort of way - DEFINITELY not standard BTVS fare, but not totally out of place. As has been alluded to before, many MANY women in their late teen and early 20's have had the "bad guy relationship" - that relationship they'd rather forget. However, where it goes to next season is anybody's guess.

Remember, we will be dealing with a radically different Spike now - the soul is a powerful enabler, but it is also a very powerful drawback for someone who has killed more people than the most fantastic serial killer. It would be a severe disappointment if the ensouled Spike did not have to deal with horrific pangs of remorse now.

As for Dawn, I think that Michelle Tractenberg is a wonderful actress, given the little she was given to work with, and hopefully Dawn will be given a chance to shine in the coming season. It would be a tremendous letdown to me to simply keep her in "Whiny-Mode" after the events of last season.
 

I actually like Dawn, which makes me probably the only person I know. :)

Teen age girls are a complete pain in the ass, but I think they do a pretty good job with her. There's a lot of little grown up/little girl flip-flops that real teenage girls do. And Dawn doesn't have a lot to offer the Scoobies, so she really needs to steal screen time from the more important players, and I think a lot of the acting out (ie whining, lying, stealing, getting in trouble) mirrors that perfectly.

I do think she suffers from having so many strong women on the show, in that there isn't a free niche (so to speak) to slot another female character in.

The best thing about BtVS is that the show does what it logically has too. This past season was a downer, but with all the open threads and basically f***ed up messes the gang has left lying around, it needed to happen. A lot got worked out this year, leaving the future wide open. If this year ahd just been another quipy season the show would have done itself a disservice.

PS
 

Storminator said:
The best thing about BtVS is that the show does what it logically has too. This past season was a downer, but with all the open threads and basically f***ed up messes the gang has left lying around, it needed to happen. A lot got worked out this year, leaving the future wide open. If this year ahd just been another quipy season the show would have done itself a disservice.

I agree, and you can count me as another Dawn fan you know :D
 

Storminator said:
I actually like Dawn, which makes me probably the only person I know. :)

Teen age girls are a complete pain in the ass, but I think they do a pretty good job with her. There's a lot of little grown up/little girl flip-flops that real teenage girls do. And Dawn doesn't have a lot to offer the Scoobies, so she really needs to steal screen time from the more important players, and I think a lot of the acting out (ie whining, lying, stealing, getting in trouble) mirrors that perfectly.

I do think she suffers from having so many strong women on the show, in that there isn't a free niche (so to speak) to slot another female character in.

The best thing about BtVS is that the show does what it logically has too. This past season was a downer, but with all the open threads and basically f***ed up messes the gang has left lying around, it needed to happen. A lot got worked out this year, leaving the future wide open. If this year ahd just been another quipy season the show would have done itself a disservice.

PS

Couldn't have said it better myself, BTW you are not the only one who likes Dawn. Honestly, i can only think of two regulars i havn't liked to one extant or another, Riley and Darla.

Heres to one more (hopefully) great season of Buffy.
 

Please understand that I have seen very few episodes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

I am clueless, as it were, concerning what Season it is, or how many episodes have occurred, or how the storyline has progressed.

The one thing I HAVE seen was the original film, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and it is against the concepts given in that film that I compare the current situation (as I saw it, in the episode in which Buffy's younger sister is discovered to be the Key.)

Now, I realize that is not the up-to-date show; evidently, that show premiered a very long time ago, but I compared it with the original film, and in that comparison I saw a number of concepts realized.

In the film, Buffy the Vampire Slayer:

Buffy was a girl. A freshwoman in High School, I believe (which makes her the age of my eldest niece, and she - most certainly! - is still a girl.)
Buffy thought like a girl in the film, modified to Hollywood's tastes (Hollywood, of course, changes behavior into unrealistic patterns. However, I am a male, and I cannot KNOW how girls think - I can guess how a teen-aged girl might think, and I am guessing that Hollywood was doing it's own take on the subject.)

Buffy did not act like Demi Moore in G.I. Jane.
Buffy did not act like she had the mentality of a soldier (or a soldier in training, ala Basic Training for the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marines.)
Buffy did not act like a superheroine (I am here to save the world! Support truth and justice! Fight evil and oppression!)

Buffy DID react, when that elderly man named her the Slayer, as I think most girls would have reacted: You're crazy! Vampires?! Slayers?! Get away from me, you kuck!

Later, Buffy reacted as any normal girl would react, once more: They exist, and it's horrible. And why me? Why me??? WHY ME?????

And Buffy did not have superpowers in the film.
In fact, Buffy could not fight at all, anymore than a typical teen-age girl could fight - that is, a typical teen-aged girl who had been raised by laid back (read: no interest in training their children to fight) parents, living in a rich (read: heavily policed) neighborhood, and with no particular interest or incentive to learn fighting arts.
That is not to say that Buffy could not have kicked someone harassing her in the nuts, and thus laid that person out cold.
That is not to say Buffy could not have put up a good fight if she HAD to - what I am saying is that Buffy was not a trained streetfighter (as many girls are forced to be in this hard world of ours, in order to simply survive, day and night, day in and day out.)
I rather got the impression was that Buffy's main interests were in boys, friends, social circles, fashions, clothing, make-up, trends, current social happenings, and current social events (and, maybe, her grades in school ...)

Buffy could not wield knives (she was not trained, at least), swords, firearms (not trained), machine guns, high explosives, or rocket launchers.
Buffy could not effectively use her hands, feet, and body as a weapon.
Buffy ... could not ... survive being thrown into a concrete wall hard enough to crack it (she would have been splattered like the rest of us.)
Buffy ... could not ... leap 10 feet into the air, or break steel chains with sheer strength, nor could she move with supernatural speed.

The elderly man says to this quite ordinary girl:

There are VAMPIRES out there.
THEY have supernatural strength, speed, and powers.
THEY can use all manner of weapons.
And THEY are all out (nearly all, at least) to KILL you.

Now, just how would your daughter react if a perfect stranger came up and said this to her, in dead earnest?
For that matter, how would you react? (I am betting, you'd escort said stranger out of town on a rail ...)

How would you react when you found out the man was right?
That your daughter was the Slayer?
That there were vampires out there?
That the Authorities (read: police, SWAT Teams, Army, Government) could not do a thing to help you or your daughter - even if they believed you, and did not have you committed after the first 3 sentences out of your mouth?

Pity poor Buffy then!!
This was a adolescent girl, not an adult, and the full brunt of this fell on her.
She did not even have her parents to talk to, if I remember correctly, concerning this matter.


Yet this girl was up to the task.
She did not crack up, as I think most would have done.
She trained to fight.
She trained to kill.
And she DID kill ... funny thing about killing, but it does wierd things to the minds of people whose business it is to kill. Ask any veteran of a war, especially a protracted war like Vietnam.
Certainly, Buffy stepped into a protracted war. It had only been going on for, what, thousands of years?
Buffy killed, but she remained Buffy. She changed, but she adapted, and she psychologically survived.

War, killing, constant danger, constant stress, do bad things to people.
Like make them go completely crazy, psychopathic, sociopathic, or cause all sorts of permanent and severe psychological damage.
Of course, they have to SURVIVE long enough to sustain that damage ... and of course, the permanent loss of hands, feet, arms, legs, your eyesight, your hearing, or multilation of the body and being permanently physically disabled - these do wondrous things for the psyche.
But don't ask me. Ask the veterans of wars.
Some of you out there on the ENBoards are veterans of wars - you don't need me to tell you how bad war is!!!

However, for all that, Buffy is still Buffy.
A girl turning into a young woman.
Trying to be a normal person (which is ultimately impossible, but one can always try ...) while being the Slayer also.

Here is what Buffy did not turn into:

Wonder Woman
Rambo
A female version of (pick an Arnold Schwarzennegar character)
Xena
A trained female character from a film the likes of The Pelican Brief, Silence of the Lambs, or Airforce One (although that seems to be the direction she is moving in)
A trained female character from a film the likes of The Matrix or Aliens.

- - -

I do not know where Buffy got her supernatural strength, her supernatural speed, or her supernatural ability to withstand physical punishment.
It is my opinion that it was the wise move of a veteran fighter to obtain those abilities.
Buffy's enemies have those abilities.

I do not know how she learned to use all the weapons Buffy now uses (from knives to rocket launchers, but not the cross or holy water, to my surprise), but it was - in my opinion - the smart thing to do.
Her enemies use every weapon they can against her.

Buffy is learning magical spells.
Wise.
Her enemies are inherently magical beings, not to mention their innate magical powers, and those who can cast magical spells themselves.

Having supernatural strength, speed, toughness, and knowing the use of many weapons, and learning the use of magic, does not make Buffy a superheroine.
It makes her ... smart.

(And, if you think about it, when is the last time you ever saw a superhero or superheroine use any weapon but THE weapon or tools that are their trademark ... such as Wonder Woman's Lasso? Or Batman's various Bat-Implements?
Not that any of their weapons or tools would have saved Wonder Woman or Batman from the monster Buffy blew apart with that rocket launcher in the mall ... LOL)

If I had to put Buffy up against the characters in FOTR, in one on one contests to the death (medieval weapons only and NO supernatural powers available to Buffy,) I'd give Buffy the edge over:

Frodo
Sam
Merry
Pippin
Boromir
Gimli
The orcs of Moria
The orcs of Mordor
The Uruk-Hai

I'd give Buffy reasonable fighting chances against:

Aragorn
Legolas
Gandalf
The Cave Troll
Lurtz
Eight of the Ringwraiths
Haldir and the Lothlorien Border Guard
Isildur
Gollum

Buffy would have very slim chances against:

Arwen
Elrond
Glorfindel
Celeborn
Shelob
The Lord of the Ringwraiths

Buffy would stand little chance against:

Elendil
Gil-Galad
Galadriel
The Balrog
Saruman

Buffy probably would have no chance against Sauron

- - -

Someone mentioned that Buffy, when she lost her powers, ran like crazy.
Good.
Shows all the more that this girl has brains.

Any veteran fighter, knows when to run.
 
Last edited:

Edena_of_Neith said:
If I had to put Buffy up against the characters in FOTR, in one on one contests to the death (medieval weapons only and NO supernatural powers available to Buffy,) I'd give Buffy the edge over:

*snip*

I'd give Buffy reasonable fighting chances against:

Aragorn
Legolas
Gandalf
The Cave Troll
Lurtz
Eight of the Ringwraiths
Haldir and the Lothlorien Border Guard
Isildur
Gollum

*snip*

Buffy would stand little chance against:

Elendil
Gil-Galad
Galadriel
The Balrog
Saruman

Gandalf is so in the wrong group. He should be in the last group not the one you have him in.

As far as Buffy's power level think of her as being kind of like Captain America (physically), a normal human with suped up abilities.
 

Edena_of_Neith said:
Please understand that I have seen very few episodes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

I am clueless, as it were, concerning what Season it is, or how many episodes have occurred, or how the storyline has progressed.

The one thing I HAVE seen was the original film, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and it is against the concepts given in that film that I compare the current situation (as I saw it, in the episode in which Buffy's younger sister is discovered to be the Key.)

Now, I realize that is not the up-to-date show; evidently, that show premiered a very long time ago, but I compared it with the original film, and in that comparison I saw a number of concepts realized.

One thing you should probably know, and you wouldn't seeing how you areen't a die-hard fan. Is that Joss Whendon was very disapointed with how the movie turned out. It isn't considered cannon in the buffy universe, and really shouldn't be compared to the serise at all.

Doesn't make your arguments any less valid, mind.
 

Remove ads

Top