D&D 5E Changing Sneak Attack to Light Weapons

[Fenris-77]

Well, I don't know about Bilbo, but I agree with Sam that Rosie Cotton was quite a looker.

Rosie "Skullsplitter" Cotton they call her. A terror with both a great axe and a well-poured pint of bitters.

 

[Flamestrike]

IME the only rogues that are using rapiers are the ones proficient with shields, or who use the bonus action Cunning action most rounds.

Dual wielding is the way to go with Rogues.

Seriously; a point or two damage difference from the rapier pales in comparison to two chances to land sneak attack.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I always viewed sneak attack as knowing how to fight dirty and target specific vulnerable spots. Those vulnerable spots may vary by target and weapon used.

That, and it's just a game, and I get tired of the ubiquity of dex builds.

While I don’t experience ubiquitous Dex builds, I agree.

It’s odd though, because in Star Wars Saga Edition we did see ubiquitous dec builds, and SWSE had a whole feat tax just to be a Dex build in Melee. And yet, people would miniaturize weapons before they’d make a melee build, unless they were playing a race with a +2 or more to strength. Even then I saw a couple Dex focused Wookiee Jedi.

Can’t add Dex to damage, even, in SWSE.

That’s gonna bother me, now. Why the difference?

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Except you don't need to be sneaking any more. The target just needs to be distracted by having that barbarian trying to chop their head off. The rogue waits for their moment and goes for the cheap shot because they're sneaky SOB's.

When why isn't it called "cheap shot"? The designers made a specific choice to define sneak attack as sneaking and attacking. So that's what it is. At least in my game.

Fluff > mechanics.

 

[Flamestrike]

When why isn't it called "cheap shot"? The designers made a specific choice to define sneak attack as sneaking and attacking. So that's what it is. At least in my game.

Fluff > mechanics.

Erm... Doesnt that first sentence more accurately result in the formula [fluff < mechanics]?

Like 'sneak attack' can be fluffed to not involving sneaking at all, if the fluff trumps mechanics.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Erm... Doesnt that first sentence more accurately result in the formula [fluff < mechanics]?

Like 'sneak attack' can be fluffed to not involving sneaking at all, if the fluff trumps mechanics.

I would rather change the mechanics than change the fluff. If a character wants a different ability that is not a "sneak attack," I'm perfectly happy to modify the mechanics, though. That character wouldn't have "sneak attack," but something more like "dirty trick." The player would then explain to me what "dirty trick" is in a narrative context and we will work together to make the mechanics match the fluff.

In other words, mechanics interpret the fluff; fluff does not interpret the mechanics (in my game).

 

[Coroc]

I was looking over sneak attack today and it occurred to me that restricting it to finesse weapons (or ranged) is something WotC got wrong IMO. This means that weapons such as a club and handaxe can't be used, but a weapon such as a Rapier (boo-hiss!!!) can. I think the finesse restriction should be light instead for the melee weapon property.

This solves the rogues always taking rapiers because-they-are-the-only-d8-finessee-weapon-and-I-can-sneak-attack-with-it issue. Rogues can still use the rapier as a primary weapon if they want the d8 of course, but not sneak attack with it.

It also stops the double-bladed scimitar for being used on sneak attacks as well.

Currently, the only weapons you can sneak attack (in melee) with are:

• Dagger
• Rapier
• Scimitar
• Shortsword
• Whip

Anyway, this would make the list of weapons you can sneak attack with:

• Club
• Dagger
• Handaxe
• Light Hammer
• Sickle
• Scimitar
• Shortsword

Since a number of these weapons aren't finesse, it lends to building STR-based Rogues for the players who want to. You could have a thug-type rogue who sneak attacks with clubs.

For people who like the idea of sneak attacking with a whip, it really should have the light property IMO anyway. Dual-wielding whips was a historic dueling practice and as such it should have the light property so it can be used as the second weapon. Yeah, you can do it with the feat, but again the game is designed around feats being optional. Otherwise, only the scimitar and shortsword are d6 weapons, everything else is a d4.

I know some people have house-ruled rapier to a d6 weapon anyway, but that doesn't help that weapons such as the club and handaxe can't be used for a sneak attack.

Other than responses from the WLR ("We Love Rapiers") club members, any thoughts on this? I think it works better, of course, but I am always open to discussion and curious if others have already made this change.

If a player asked for it i would definitely allow any weapon on that list and add martial, knife and light mace on top. It is a matter of taste. If any weapons eventually but only eventually should not make the list it is scimitar and rapier. Not because of combat properties or game mechanics, but simply because you cannot easily conceal them.
All other weapons there are either very small and/or double up as tools and that's the point for me. It is not only to sneak up undetected but eventually looking harmless to other observers than the victim.

What do you think?

 

[Flamestrike]

I would rather change the mechanics than change the fluff. If a character wants a different ability that is not a "sneak attack," I'm perfectly happy to modify the mechanics, though. That character wouldn't have "sneak attack," but something more like "dirty trick." The player would then explain to me what "dirty trick" is in a narrative context and we will work together to make the mechanics match the fluff.

In other words, mechanics interpret the fluff; fluff does not interpret the mechanics (in my game).

Or he can just call it what he wants and be done with it?

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Or he can just call it what he wants and be done with it?

Depend. If a player named it "dirty trick" I would ask the player what that looked like and how it created the extra damage. I'm not sure a character could "trick" a slime or a mind-reading opponent, for example. In which case, slime or a mind-reading opponents might be immune.

As long as the flush and the mechanics match, I'm happy.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

When why isn't it called "cheap shot"? The designers made a specific choice to define sneak attack as sneaking and attacking. So that's what it is. At least in my game.

Fluff > mechanics.

Does sneak attack work in a straight-up fight with an opponent when the Rogue has an ally next to them?
In your game.