D&D 5E Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part XIII: Warlock)


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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
There's also the issue that long winded curses and hexes like that feel a little too evil for a PC option to me.

And even if you use it on a VILLAIN, waiting around a couple weeks for the bad guy to keel over from an evil eye feels really inefficient compared to a good ol’ stabbin’
Two things. First, not all campaigns are about heroes of light and justice. Some are about a party of downright bad folk. Second, witches can curse or aid, a PC witch aiding a farmer's ailing crops over a matter of weeks is also possible.
 

RealAlHazred

Frumious Flumph
There's also the issue that long winded curses and hexes like that feel a little too evil for a PC option to me.

And even if you use it on a VILLAIN, waiting around a couple weeks for the bad guy to keel over from an evil eye feels really inefficient compared to a good ol’ stabbin’
Sure, but if the villain is Lord Southrock, and you jump him when he's passing through the town square and shank him to death, there will be more massive repercussions than if he passes away from a wasting disease in bed in a few weeks. In any case, I'm not sure how the evil eye is more inherently "evil" than the eldritch blast (at least, aside from the name!)
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Sure, but if the villain is Lord Southrock, and you jump him when he's passing through the town square and shank him to death, there will be more massive repercussions than if he passes away from a wasting disease in bed in a few weeks. In any case, I'm not sure how the evil eye is more inherently "evil" than the eldritch blast (at least, aside from the name!)
Maybe it's like 1e where Gygax felt converting someone to good by the sword and then murdering them before they could backslide was LG, but poisoning someone was evil and most classes couldn't use it. :p
 



RealAlHazred

Frumious Flumph
Maybe it's like 1e where Gygax felt converting someone to good by the sword and then murdering them before they could backslide was LG, but poisoning someone was evil and most classes couldn't use it. :p
Yeah, Gary's AD&D alignment system was... interesting. I did like when other games took alignments and cranked them up to 11, like Palladium.
 

Undrave

Hero
Two things. First, not all campaigns are about heroes of light and justice. Some are about a party of downright bad folk. Second, witches can curse or aid, a PC witch aiding a farmer's ailing crops over a matter of weeks is also possible.
Plant Growth's 8 hours version can already help with the yield of crops over the next year so that's not out of the realm of possibility.
Sure, but if the villain is Lord Southrock, and you jump him when he's passing through the town square and shank him to death, there will be more massive repercussions than if he passes away from a wasting disease in bed in a few weeks. In any case, I'm not sure how the evil eye is more inherently "evil" than the eldritch blast (at least, aside from the name!)
I just feel like, if Lord Southrock is being abusive to his serfs and people are dying from hunger or whatever... might as well get rid of him NOW rather than later :p

Plus, consequences are just the seeds of more adventures :p
 



RealAlHazred

Frumious Flumph
I just feel like, if Lord Southrock is being abusive to his serfs and people are dying from hunger or whatever... might as well get rid of him NOW rather than later :p
Well, usually somebody like him is an ass to some people, but good to other people. And there are always, always people who are superhumanly devoted to supporting people who go against their best interests. Doesn't mean some out-of-town yahoos can just go and off him without consequences.
Plus, consequences are just the seeds of more adventures :p
Well, sure, they're the best kind of adventures, the "find out" portion of "eff around and find out""play to find out what happens".
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
I'll have to look at that. I didn't know Palladium had an alignment system.

PALLADIUM ALIGHNMENTS
GOOD ALIGNMENTS: Principled & Scrupulous

Principled:
1. Always keep word
2. Avoids lies
3. Never kill OR attack unarmed foe
4. Never harm an innocent
5. Never torture
6. Never Kill for pleasure
7. Always help others
8. Works well with others
9. Respects authority, laws, self-dicipline and honor
10. Never betray a friend
11. Never break the law UNLESS conditions are desperate.

Scrupulous:
1. Keep word to any other GOOD person
2. Lie only to people of selfish or evil alignments
3. Never kill OR attack unarmed foe
4. Never harm an innocent
5. Never torture for pleasure, may use muscle to extract info. from criminals or evil people
6. Never Kill for pleasure, will always attempt to bring villains to justice alive even if evil
7. Always help others
8. Attempt to work within the Law whenever possible
9. Bends and occasionally break Laws when necessary.
10. Distrust Authority
11. Work with groups, but dislikes confining laws and Bureacracy (red tape)

SELFISH ALIGNMENTS: Unprincipled & Anarchist

Unprincipled
1. High regard for life and freedom
2. Keep word of honor
3. Lie & cheat if necesary (especially to Anarchists or evil persons)
4. Will not kill an unarmed foe (but will take advantage of one)
5. Help those in need
6. Not use torture unless absolutely necessary
7. Work with a group, especially if profitable
8. Never harm an innocent
9. Never kill for pleasure
10. Dislikes authority
11. Never betray a friend

Anarchist
1. May keep word
2. Lie & Cheat if he feels necessary
3. Not likely to kill an unarmed foe, but will certainly knockout, attack, or beat up one
4. Never kill an innocent, but may harm or kidnap
5. Not likely to help someone without ulterior motive
6. Seldom kill for pleasure
7. Use torture to extract info but not likely for pleasure
8. Doesn't work well in groups he will do as he d**n well pleases
9. Have little respect for self-discipline or authority
10. May betray a friend


EVIL ALIGNMENTS: Miscreant, Aberrant & Diabolic

Miscreant
1. Not necessarily keep his word to anyone
2. Lie & Cheat anyone
3. Most definitely attack an unarmed foe, they are the best kind
4. Use or Harm an innocent
5. Use torture for extracting info. and pleasure
6. May kill for sheer pleasure
7. Feels no compulsion to help without somekind of tangible reward
8. Work with others if it will help him attain personal goals
9. Kill an unarmed foe as readily as he would a potential threat or competitor
10. Has no deference to laws or authority, but will work within them if he must
11. Will betray a friend if it serves his needs.

Aberrant
1. Always keeps his word of honor
2. Lie & cheat those not worthy of his respect
3. May or may not kill an unarmed foe
4. Not kill an innocent particularly a child but will harm or kidnap
5. Never kill for pleasure
6. Not resort to inhumane treatment of prisoners, nut torture, although distasteful, is necessary means of extracting info.
7. Never torture for pleasure
8. May or may not help someone in need
9. work with others to attain his goals
10. Respect honor and self-discipline
11. Never betray a friend

Diabolic
1. Rarely keeps word
2. Lie and cheat anyone
3. Most certainly attack or kill an unarmed foe
4. Use, harm and kill an innocent without a second thought for any reason
5. Use torture for pleasure and info.
6. Kill for pleasure
7. Likely to help someone only to kill or rob them
8. Not work well with groups. Consistently disregards orders to do as he pleases
9. Despise honor, authority, and self-discipline
10. Associate mostly with other evil alignments
11. Betray friends at anytime.
 




Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I LIKED the psi-dice! It was an interesting mechanic! Imagine an entire class based on it, where every special power you use risks burning you out for a while!
I loved the psi-dice and thought it was a great mechanic. And with the refresh the odds of you not getting several uses out of the dice were very low. The people who were like, 2 uses and done weren't looking at the math with an open mind.
 

I LIKED the psi-dice! It was an interesting mechanic! Imagine an entire class based on it, where every special power you use risks burning you out for a while!
Nope. Didn't like it, especially for a psion.
I loved the psi-dice and thought it was a great mechanic. And with the refresh the odds of you not getting several uses out of the dice were very low. The people who were like, 2 uses and done weren't looking at the math with an open mind.
And this would be why I said, in the "what's the big deal with psionics" thread, that the fundamental stumbling block for producing a new psionic class is not whether or not people want one. It's that WotC doesn't have the ability to collect the amounts and kinds of data necessary for their developers to produce a class that can actually unite the warring factions of psi-enjoyers.

It could easily be that even 80% of fans want to see a new psionic class. But if half of them hate a particular approach enough to oppose it, then 60% of people overall are opposed to it, and it won't survive. The feelings run very strong when it comes to psionics for most people. Love or hate, and if love, what exactly one loves about it, are all strong opinions.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
And this would be why I said, in the "what's the big deal with psionics" thread, that the fundamental stumbling block for producing a new psionic class is not whether or not people want one. It's that WotC doesn't have the ability to collect the amounts and kinds of data necessary for their developers to produce a class that can actually unite the warring factions of psi-enjoyers.
Sure they do. They just need to put all of them out there and have people rank them. I like psionic points to fuel powers, I like the psionic dice, I like the mystic, and I'm sure there are some others I would like. The problem is that they just put out one and have people give it a thumbs up or thumbs down and if it's not someone's absolute favorite(for me the psionic points to fuel powers), it's going to get a thumbs down.

If they asked people to rank them, they'd notice that a lot of people like a lot of the ideas, but have an absolute favorite that they've been pushing. It would be fairly easy for them to correlate a type of psionics that 70% of people like, even if it's not the favorite of 70%.
It could easily be that even 80% of fans want to see a new psionic class. But if half of them hate a particular approach enough to oppose it, then 60% of people overall are opposed to it, and it won't survive. The feelings run very strong when it comes to psionics for most people. Love or hate, and if love, what exactly one loves about it, are all strong opinions.
If you look at the psionic threads here, the vast majority of people who want psionics have other methods that they would be happy with, even if it isn't their favorite. They say so in every thread. There are a few die hards that are my way or the highway, but less than 30% of us here are that way. Probably less than 10%. Not that we're truly indicative of the gaming population at large.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
I think some of the dislike for the hexblade is how... cludgy the greater context is. Pact of the blade needed fixing, and instead we got a combat-focused patron. Ok, sure but it still makes non hexblade pact of the blade warlocks a bit weak. And it's now an incredible one-level dip - an OP one really...

So a bit like the GOO, I love the idea of the hexblade, but the execution, the context, is not so great.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
I think some of the dislike for the hexblade is how... cludgy the greater context is. Pact of the blade needed fixing, and instead we got a combat-focused patron. Ok, sure but it still makes non hexblade pact of the blade warlocks a bit weak. And it's now an incredible one-level dip - an OP one really...

So a bit like the GOO, I love the idea of the hexblade, but the execution, the context, is not so great.
Even as a fan of the Hexblade, I have to agree. It could have used a little more polish.

To be fair, this is how I feel about the Celestial as well. It's also a great concept, but the execution is lackluster.
 

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