Completely off topic: considering a divorce and need any advice out there

[krunchyfrogg]

I'd really love any advice from anybody who has considered, or who has been through a similar situation as mine. I'm not going to base my decision on a discussion on a message board, but I will probably feel better after venting, and any outside voice will be a welcome one.

Here's the situation:

I'm 34, the Wife is 37 (and will be 38 in a few weeks). Our baby will turn 1 in less than two weeks, and our 6 year anniversary is tomorrow (the 4th). We've been dating since we met, in June of 1999.

Since the baby has been born, if the two of us aren't shouting at each other, we're giving each other the silent treatment. The last time we were "intimate" with each other was sometime before baseball season started (which is at the beginning of April). I know you're only getting one side of this story, but I honestly can't remember intentionally ever starting a fight between us. I am always trying to make things better, but she'll pick one minute thing that I did, and the whole effort will be a lost one.

The baby seems very happy, and I keep telling myself to endure this marriage where I feel verbally abused, but I don't think I can take it anymore.

My wife is refusing counseling together, so I go myself once every two weeks.

Neither of us has a real social circle. She quit her job to be a stay at home Mom and now she only sees some people she plays tennis with for an hour or two 2-3 times a week. I haven't kept in touch with old friends and I pretty much have coworkers to talk to (3 people), and they're all at least 15 years older than me (so there's a disconnect there). The most support I'm getting is from my boss, who has a similar, easygoing personality as mine, and went through a similar situation with his ex-wife. Other than coworkers, I've joined a fall softball league to meet new people, which starts in a few weeks.

We've had fights over the past six months where I've just walked out after she's told me she doesn't want me around. That's where I am right now, I went into work at 11:30 at night, and plan on sleeping here tonight (it's in a hospital, so we have stretchers and blankets).

I know this is an incomplete story, but it can't be a good thing to be kicked out of your own house the night before your wedding anniversary.

As much as I miss my Wife and baby (and I really do miss them, especially my daughter), if it comes to divorce, which I really think it might, what advice can y'all give me?

 

[megamania]

I may be way off here but it comes across as many of the problems began with the baby being concieved and born. This idsa life changing event and one that causes a great deal of internal struggle and soul searching. For a woman, it creates a great deal of hormonal changes that leads to duifferent emotional reactions and interests.


So I guess what I am saying is-

be sure it really is a cause for seperation

think about the new born also.

Otherwise.... I'm not sure what to say. No matter what.... you will always question whatever decision the two of you make.

 

[LightPhoenix]

My only advice is to talk with a divorce attorney. Not any old attorney, but one that specifically deals with divorce. Not just for the legal protection, though that helps too. While lawyer jokes are easy to make, these people see divorce every day, and may offer some advice none of here may think of.

Otherwise, I hope everything works out in the end, one way or the other.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

Thanks guys. While my Wife and I have never had a perfect marriage (I know there's no such thing), we always did bicker more than most. Definitely a lot more than my parents did growing up. as much as I try to deny it, when I go home, I'm miserable around my wife. I hope things change. I want us to go to a counselor. I don't want to be spending time sleeping at my job.

 

[Umbran]

Just a note - you don't have to answer any questions about this that you don't want to.

Also note - most of us here are not counselors, or mental health professionals, so please think carefully about what we say before you apply anything.

My wife is refusing counseling together, so I go myself once every two weeks.

First off - some kudos to you for trying to fix things as best you can.

Now a question: Does she give a reason for her refusal?

Some folks are highly resistant to airing their troubles to strangers. In this case, talking to a stranger can be very helpful, because that person helps both of you remain in "civil" mode, which can be key to real communication.

But, if she won't do that, maybe getting a friend you both trust and who has some wisdom might still be constructive. You might consider suggesting this to her.

Neither of us has a real social circle.

You brought this up, so I expect you know that this isn't healthy. Even introverted folks need to have contact with other human beings. In a healthy marriage, your partner may be your best friend, but he or she is not your only friend.

So, however you do it, the two of you need to get out and get some real human contact - especially your wife, who by the sound of it is even more isolated than you.

As much as I miss my Wife and baby (and I really do miss them, especially my daughter), if it comes to divorce, which I really think it might, what advice can y'all give me?

My thoughts, should it come to that:

1) Your wife isn't evil. She's under heavy stress, and seems to lack the normal outlets humans have for stress. That is likely to give her anxiety and anger. You just happen to be the best outlet she has now. Don't vilify her.

2) You aren't evil either. Don't beat up on yourself if it doesn't work out. Sometimes, it just doesn't.

 

[nedjer]

Just a note - you don't have to answer any questions about this that you don't want to.

Also note - most of us here are not counselors, or mental health professionals, so please think carefully about what we say before you apply anything.



First off - some kudos to you for trying to fix things as best you can.

Now a question: Does she give a reason for her refusal?

Some folks are highly resistant to airing their troubles to strangers. In this case, talking to a stranger can be very helpful, because that person helps both of you remain in "civil" mode, which can be key to real communication.

But, if she won't do that, maybe getting a friend you both trust and who has some wisdom might still be constructive. You might consider suggesting this to her.



You brought this up, so I expect you know that this isn't healthy. Even introverted folks need to have contact with other human beings. In a healthy marriage, your partner may be your best friend, but he or she is not your only friend.

So, however you do it, the two of you need to get out and get some real human contact - especially your wife, who by the sound of it is even more isolated than you.



My thoughts, should it come to that:

1) Your wife isn't evil. She's under heavy stress, and seems to lack the normal outlets humans have for stress. That is likely to give her anxiety and anger. You just happen to be the best outlet she has now. Don't vilify her.

2) You aren't evil either. Don't beat up on yourself if it doesn't work out. Sometimes, it just doesn't.

Can't comment on the specifics of this, but (aside from noting that Umbran's either wise beyond his years or his real name's Methuselah), there is, perhaps, a possibility of post-natal depression; which, were that the case, is a concern you'd maybe want to address.

 

[IronWolf]

there is, perhaps, a possibility of post-natal depression; which, were that the case, is a concern you'd maybe want to address.

Partpartum depression was my first thought when I read the original post. You mentioned you had been to a counselor, has this subject come up? It is a very real possibility and your counselor might have strategies for bringing this topic up to your wife and hopefully from there working to resolve it at which point you might find things in your marriage turning around.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

Just a note - you don't have to answer any questions about this that you don't want to.

Also note - most of us here are not counselors, or mental health professionals, so please think carefully about what we say before you apply anything.



First off - some kudos to you for trying to fix things as best you can.

Now a question: Does she give a reason for her refusal?

She believes that I will manipulate the counselor and come out smelling like roses, "just like he did on that episode of Everybody Loves Raymond"

Some folks are highly resistant to airing their troubles to strangers. In this case, talking to a stranger can be very helpful, because that person helps both of you remain in "civil" mode, which can be key to real communication.

But, if she won't do that, maybe getting a friend you both trust and who has some wisdom might still be constructive. You might consider suggesting this to her.

That's the problem, over the years, we've grown more and more distant from friends. Now that she's home with the baby all the time, she has even less human contact, and any aggression comes out on me.

Before I met her, she had been to counselors before. It's not like it's a foreign, or going into uncharted waters for her.

You brought this up, so I expect you know that this isn't healthy. Even introverted folks need to have contact with other human beings. In a healthy marriage, your partner may be your best friend, but he or she is not your only friend.

So, however you do it, the two of you need to get out and get some real human contact - especially your wife, who by the sound of it is even more isolated than you.

Yes, she is more isolated than me. I have work to go to, and I am signed up for a fall softball league, where I'm guaranteed to meet at least 10 new people. I am an introvert by nature, and as uncomfortable as it is, I'm doing this (not only b/c I love softball) to meet others.

I suggested that she get out and get some human contact, but it was during a fight while I was storming out last night.

I hope that she does call on a friend today, but I have my doubts. I really wish she would, because not only does sheneed the contact, but I honestly believe (and maybe this is a bit selfish), that if she were to b*tch and moan to some friends about me, and actually hear herself vocalize her complaints about me, she might realize how good she has it. I bend over backwards to make this woman happy, and I get no returns on my efforts.

My thoughts, should it come to that:

1) Your wife isn't evil. She's under heavy stress, and seems to lack the normal outlets humans have for stress. That is likely to give her anxiety and anger. You just happen to be the best outlet she has now. Don't vilify her.

2) You aren't evil either. Don't beat up on yourself if it doesn't work out. Sometimes, it just doesn't.

I know you're right, and while I hope I'm wrong, I just see this heading the way of the big D. I need her to have another outlet. I can't take her verbally abusing me when all I want to do is help her out.

Partpartum depression was my first thought when I read the original post. You mentioned you had been to a counselor, has this subject come up? It is a very real possibility and your counselor might have strategies for bringing this topic up to your wife and hopefully from there working to resolve it at which point you might find things in your marriage turning around.

It could be post-partum depression. It's never really come up in my sessions, but I did post a similar story on a different forum with this answer as well. It was suggested to me that I bring it up with the pediatrician. My issue is that the appointments with the pediatrician are made when I'm at work, and he's the husband of one of my Wife's tennis partners, which IMO is a conflict of interest.

We actually just changed to this guy, and when I'm sure all the paperwork has gone through, I do plan on calling him before their first meeting with him. Although I view it as a long shot, it's one I think I've got to take.


Thanks everybody.

 

[fba827]

(going based solely on what is written here, as well have having no real experience that qualifies me to give actual advice ....)

1) (as others have said) regarding the wife, i was also thinking about depression as i read that -- as you said, it did seem to pick up after the child was born.
2) the wife quit her job for the child and has no social circle, so there is the possibility that either
-- a) she is simply stressed (no outlet to deal with the major change you both just incurred since she is always home with the child) or
-- b) she is resentful (having to give up other aspects of her life for this change)
3) She is mad at you but has yet to communicate to you that she is angry (either for something big, or something small, or several small things, or for how 'life' is going, etc)
4) Some other topic that coincides with all this that you aren't yet realizing the full effect of (perhaps money got tighter when the baby was born and she quit her job?)
5) a combination of 1 & 2a & 2b & 3 & 4?

Was there any activity (before the child) that your wife enjoyed as an outlet?
(be it physical or craft related ) - perhaps there's a nonobvious way you could watch the baby for the night while she goes out to relax (i say nonobvious because you've said that she's already against consoling, so going out for the expressed purpose of relaxing from pent up anger/stress rather than "just because" may gain some distrust or annoyance )

Does she know that you go for counseling? I know this will sound silly but I know for my parents, if my father was going for counseling, then my mother would just get more angry for a) sharing details with a stranger, and b) every day my dad goes out for consoling, it is a reminder that something is 'wrong' and thus revisiting all the reasons they are fighting in the first place even though she may have gotten over it weeks ago

From what you know of your wife, think back to before the newborn -- what were some of her more stressful moments (be it with you, at work, etc), and what were her coping mechanisms to deal with that? Did she normally retreat until all was clear, did she normally take offensive stances, did she normally talk things out, etc ? Or on a smaller scale, if the waiter brought her something wrong at a restaurant, did she argue with the waiter, talk it out calmly, or just quietly drink/eat the incorrect thing that she didn't order? (though bigger scale examples are better for you to think of if you can).

and, finally, if it does come to divorce (if possible, save it as a last resort option given the presence of the child), be sure it's what you want and then lawyer up. Even the friendliest of things with the best intentions of good faith can go badly as it gets more emotional.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

#1
Whatever else you do - get a lawyer NOW. Whether or not you solve your marital problems, if it comes to divorce you NEED legal advice on the matter.

#2
Go to counseling ALONE if she won't go with you.