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Dear Hasbro: about those minis

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humble minion said:
Oh, and I've always been a bit sceptical about Merric's Laws (nothing personal, Merric!) If I want to collect X minis of various varieties to use for roleplaying, because of the random packaging, I'll have to end up paying for X+Y minis, of which Y are duplicates, silly monsters that I don't like, or things like Warforged and Dragonspawn that will never see the light of day in my games. Merric's Laws state I can choose two of cheap prices, non-random selection, and a wide range. WotC minis assume (claim?) to give low price and a wide range. But WotCs sales model makes me buy almost as many minis that I don't want (on average) as those that I do. Maybe I'm getting a cheap price per mini on sheer dumb numbers, but the price per mini-that-I'll-actually-use is a LOT higher. Cheap price on paper, maybe, but when that cheap price comes with the proviso that I'll also have to spend a lot of money on stuff I'll never use, the argument loses a lot of weight...

That's part of the tradeoff that makes the Law work.

Look, mini companies have two choices with mini packaging. Say you make 8 miniatures, and you need $8 profit.

If you sell them randomly, you sell them in one booster, and charge $8 for it. The booster is sold, you get $8. The purchaser might not want all the minis, but that isn't your problem. If you sell them non-randomly, and the purchaser only wants 4 of them, you have to sell them for $2 each. You end up with four unsold minis, but you get the $8 profit.

The problem with the non-random solution is in what happens to those 4 unsold minis, because storing them costs! (Either you, or the retailer, or the distributor).

Here's an interesting comparison: the minis you don't want are like the monsters you don't want in a Monster Manual...

Cheers!
 
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Darrell said:
Frankly, I'd be far more likely to pick up a pack like that as an impulse buy at the LGS than the newest splatbook or some crap like 'Three Dragon Ante.'

Regards,
Darrell


Not to get off track here but Three Dragon Ante is a pretty fun game although I understand it's not everybody's cup of tea.

And oh yeah, I'd also like to see creature theme packs. Ain't gonna happen tho.
 

Heck, I LIKE painting minis, but I just don't have time for it these days (two small kids and a demanding job), so the D&D minis are fine for me. But it all comes down to how to get what I want. I have very specific wants for figures, so random packaging doesnn't really do it for me, but I've been willing to pay (too much) money for indivdual figures from online retailers. In fact, the one I use will sell you 10 goblins for$ 8.99, which seems reasonable given the cost per package of a random set.

But again, it all depends on what you want. I wasn't impressed with the quality of the D&D minis at first, but they've gotten better and better.
 

Another thought. I liked the minis for the Chainmail skirmish game, and was sorry to see it go (still got a lot unpainted), but it serves as a proof for Merric's law. It was a bust because people weren't willing to pay the necessary cost per mini to keep it operational, but when they moved to (relatively) cheep, plastic, and prepainted random minis, the concept exploded. Personally, if I had time, I love to have beautiful metal minis that I could paint individually as need be, but in the circumstance, I'm happy to have what I can get.

Even moreso for starwars, 'cause you just can't find a good jedi or wookie mini apart from what WOTC sells, because of licensing.
 

Personally I could live with random packs if they were more tightly themed.

Say if "Deathknell" were actually just undead of various types, so I could buy 6 packs and be reasonably confident I'd get at least 6 skeleton-type things (I don't care whether they are skeleton swordsmen, axemen or whatever).

Or a "Hordes of the Orcs", with Orcs, Goblin Slaves and various allied humanoids, for D&D purposes an Orc Bezerker, Orc Guardian, Orc Mauler or Orc Battlerager isn't too big a distinction.
 

delericho said:
Of course, you can then resell those unwanted minis on the secondary market. This has the dual benefit of recouping some of the money you've spent, and also making those minis available to the people who won't buy the random packs, or didn't get the minis they wanted.

This would be true, but the vast majority of minis have next to no resale value. EVERYONE who's bought any significant number of minis has already got a zillion dwarves, for instance, and very few people will be in the market for an army of Soulknives. The amount you stand to make back from selling most commons and uncommons is relatively miniscule - and the ones that do retain value (stirge!) tend the be the ones that are useful for roleplaying, and that you therefore won't be selling anyway...
 

MerricB said:
The problem with the non-random solution is in what happens to those 4 unsold minis, because storing them costs! (Either you, or the retailer, or the distributor).

Of course, one of the advantages of the traditional minis model is that you can cast to order. If you need 12 more blisters of orc archers to sell, you cast them and ship them out. If you cast too many, you dump the extras back into the pot and use the metal for something else. Getting pre-painted minis done in China does not work this way. Companies have to commit to big runs to make them economical.
 

Remus Lupin said:
Another thought. I liked the minis for the Chainmail skirmish game, and was sorry to see it go (still got a lot unpainted), but it serves as a proof for Merric's law.

No, it really doesn't. Chainmail was hopelessly compromised by the internal politics of WotC so I would not draw too many conclusions based on its fate. As we were trying to launch the game and facing endless roadblocks, territorial disputes, and corporate shenanigans, we used to joke that we were being shackled at the ankles, shot in both knees, and then told to run.
 

MerricB said:
That's part of the tradeoff that makes the Law work.

Look, mini companies have two choices with mini packaging. Say you make 8 miniatures, and you need $8 profit.

If you sell them randomly, you sell them in one booster, and charge $8 for it. The booster is sold, you get $8. The purchaser might not want all the minis, but that isn't your problem. If you sell them non-randomly, and the purchaser only wants 4 of them, you have to sell them for $2 each. You end up with four unsold minis, but you get the $8 profit.

The problem with the non-random solution is in what happens to those 4 unsold minis, because storing them costs! (Either you, or the retailer, or the distributor).

Here's an interesting comparison: the minis you don't want are like the monsters you don't want in a Monster Manual...

Cheers!


This is all true, as far as it goes. But in your example, when minis are packaged nonrandomly, the manufacturer can probably increase the number of minis sold to 6 or so out of 8, through market research and targeting the mini subjects to what customers actually want. This would be a welcome change to the current rather farcical situation (though to be fair, Blood War was a great improvement on this front) in which classic, MM1 monsters are carefully rationed out between sets, in order to string roleplayers along and coax them into buying as much superfluous rubbish as possible in their increasingly cranky quest to get hold of a solid set of playing pieces. It's possible i'm imagining things here, but I even seem to recall a WotC rep on Maxminis a while back pretty much admitting that was their marketing strategy, correct me if i'm wrong.

Seriously, a large percentage of minis are padding. Some will become popular because they're powerful in the skirmish game, but in the final analysis, most skirmishers don't care what the mini looks like as long as the numbers on the card are big enough. Most minis of any set get relegated instantly to the spares bin, sadly enough.

If this manufacturer of yours needs to make $8 from his 8 minis, he has two options. He can use random distribution and coax the purchaser into paying $1 each for a bunch of minis that (if he's lucky!) he'll use a fraction of, or he can raise his prices to, say, $2 per mini, but do his damndest to only make minis that people actually want. Blind Freddie would have known that everyone was going to hate the Bluespawn Godslayer, for instance, or the Frost Dwarf, or the Kobold Monk when we already have piles of other kobolds. We didn't need them. We only need so many iterations of 'dwarf with axe' or 'elf with bow'. Yes, this cuts down the total size of the mini range, but only a small fraction of the range ever sees any use anyway, and a large percentage of the theoretical range is out of print and therefore inaccessable to most casual purchasers. Non-random packaging, higher prices, a bit of bloody attention paid to what subjects people actually want, and a smaller range of minis that do not go permanently out of print at the end of their manufacturing runs (therefore not requiring displacer beast-esque reprints) would be my preference.

But of course that's all from my perspective, and I'm a roleplayer. I have a sneaking suspicion the DDM range is run by and for skirmish gamers these days. I'd have assumed that there was more customer base on the RPG side of things, personally, but I suppose WotC has done more market research than I have...
 

Kae'Yoss said:
Deathknell never cost 15 quid. The official price was $13, I think - and you hardly ever pay that: Usually, the shops sell individual boosters for several dollars less, and if you buy by the case (12 boosters), it gets even cheaper.

Usually several dollars less per booster? I've never seen them for less than retail around the St. Louis area, and if I buy them online I have to pay shipping.

Oh well. I just buy reaper figs and know where my money goes, not to mention get much better looking figs after I slap some paint on them. WOTC is probably making the most money this way and I doubt they are going to change.
 

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