D&D 5E DnD Beyond - Why is it still so bad?

[dave2008]

Paying twice for the same content is absurd. Paying for the content once and a reasonable fee to be able have access to another version of the same content is not absurd.

Again, I disagree with what you call absurd, but I do agree it is not ideal. However, I recognize that it is not as simple as you want/describe it to be. I imagine you realize that too.

 

[Mercule]

Again, I disagree with what you call absurd, but I do agree it is not ideal. However, I recognize that it is not as simple as you want/describe it to be. I imagine you realize that too.

This. I get the idea-- heck, I like not paying for things as much as the next guy.

Probably the post (on DDB forums) which killed any real sympathy I had for the argument was the guy who was virtually frothing at the mouth about having to may anything for the e-format of a book of which he'd already bought three physical copies. So, apparently, the line is somewhere around it being OK to pay full price three times for the same format, but not half price for a completely new format. At that point, you're just being an entitled, argumentative little turd. (Not directed at anyone in this thread.)

 

[FrogReaver]

But you haven't bought it. You bought a book. You haven't bought the digital product. Why do you expect go get two products for the price of one?

What is a book?

 

[Jester David]

So go do that then and stop complaining about not paying for something you don't want or need?

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I have.
And I don't complain about D&D Beyond, because the people who made the program and copied the data need to get paid too.

 

[akr71]

I had little issue paying for the digital products - I bought the introductory bundle of the DMG, PHB & MM. I do not view it as paying for the same content twice, but paying for a service - bringing up monster stats while I DM has been invaluable.

I do not pay for a monthly subscription and will not until the character generator is something that I will use willingly. Quite frankly, I think the character generator sucks right now. I don't like a forced, linear flow of character generation - especially in the way they've implemented. Everyone in my group usually thinks class first, stats or race second & background fourth. Choosing XP method and Encumberance is unnecessary during creation - the DM (which is me) can worry about that.

 

[Jester David]

Odd that I'm replying to a second of yours, I should have multi-quoted.

This is why I like publishers like Pelgrane Press, who puts out 13th Age, Gumshoe and a bunch of RPGs. You can buy the PDF from them. You can buy the hardcover from them and it comes with the PDF for free. Game stores (but not Amazon!) can sign up for free for their Bits and Mortar, and if you buy the Hardcover for the games store, you can download the PDF for free. (I think the game store needs to join so they know it's a legit store and not someone faking a receipt to just get the PDF.) That's how a modern game company should do it.

Sorry, I'm more then a bit salty at WotC's lack of PDFs. I like PDFs as well as hardcovers and I think they are making it harder on us gamers not having them. Plus I'm sure all of the books have been scanned, I've seen people looking up things on devices at my FLGS, so piracy will happen regardless.

It works for Pelgrane and smaller publishers who will only be sold on at FLGS or online. Bits and Mortar wouldn't work for WotC who likely sells quite a few copies on Amazon and in chain book stores.
D&D PDFs were *always* going to be extra.

And it's too late now. They can't go back and allow free PDFs with purchase. If they started now, they'd have 800,000 angry people who wanted a free PDF.

Plus, if they had released PDFs prior, they almost certainly would have been charging full book price for them. (Which would also make it harder to justify piracy, since you're no longer "stealing' a product you *can't* buy, rather than one you just don't want to pay for again.)

PDFs are nice. Especially in place of bringing a dozen books to Cons or reading on the go.
But during play, an app works better. Searchability, speed, and linking just make it easier. I had cheap Paizo PDFs and an PFSRD app and the latter just worked so well. (Until I stopped being updated as I payed a one-time price rather than a subscription and the dude who made the app couldn't keep up with the release schedule.)
A full text app might be the best way to go...

 

[CapnZapp]

This. I get the idea-- heck, I like not paying for things as much as the next guy.

Myself, I like not paying as much for things as the next guy.

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*I'll show myself out*



Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[CapnZapp]

What is a book?

A book is a book is a book.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Blue]

It works for Pelgrane and smaller publishers who will only be sold on at FLGS or online. Bits and Mortar wouldn't work for WotC who likely sells quite a few copies on Amazon and in chain book stores.
D&D PDFs were *always* going to be extra.

There's value in PDFs and I don't mind paying for it. What I don't want to do is pay full price for IP twice. I had a 3.x PHB that came with a char generator CD. How much easier would it to come with just a unique ID that you connect to your DMs Guild account (and is in the watermarking).

So I can see PDFs going for the same profit that WotC gets for their other books (in other words, they sell at a discount off list price to their distributors and have costs to cover). This gives them the same profit for people who buy one or the other. Paying for IP and format - good by me. I would like a bundle where you pay more then current list price and get hardcover and PDF, but not too much more. Paying for IP once and format twice.

The "no Amazon" rule, IIRC, was Pelgrane Press' attempt to bolster FLGS over Amazon - give back to the hobby by giving you a reason to shop through them.

And yeah, I never thought WotC should go back and give out free PDFs. That would be ridiculous. And the ship has sailed for the bundle idea as well. Which doesn't mean that they can't change things for moving forward.

PDFs are nice. Especially in place of bringing a dozen books to Cons or reading on the go.
But during play, an app works better.

While doing my session prep, having PDFs that I can cut-and-paste monster stats, magic items and the like is useful. When creating/leveling a character doing the same for spells know is also useful. Also an app that doesn't support houserules or manual changes would fall short for many.

Not putting down apps - just saying that there are places where each is ascendant.

 

[Jester David]

There's value in PDFs and I don't mind paying for it. What I don't want to do is pay full price for IP twice. I had a 3.x PHB that came with a char generator CD. How much easier would it to come with just a unique ID that you connect to your DMs Guild account (and is in the watermarking).

That'd be great. In theory.

In practice, you'd have missing CDs and WotC would continually be fielding complaints about absent discs.
And you'd *still* have people complaining about having to sign up to the DMsGuild.
And if no credit card is associated with the account you'd instantly have people make temporary burn accounts that could be banned, using the code, and then distributing the PDF.
To say nothing of people who don't have optical drives… How many college and university students might only have a smartphone or tablet? Will optical drives still be in heavy use in five years? Ten?

Right now piracy exists. But it exists with a time delay as people scan a book then clean up said scan. With the above, you'd have same day piracy.

So I can see PDFs going for the same profit that WotC gets for their other books (in other words, they sell at a discount off list price to their distributors and have costs to cover). This gives them the same profit for people who buy one or the other. Paying for IP and format - good by me. I would like a bundle where you pay more then current list price and get hardcover and PDF, but not too much more. Paying for IP once and format twice.

If they were hosting the content, they could probably charge $10 and make the same amount of money, since they don't need to pay for printing and distribution and such. But since One Book Shelf does the delivery, it'd have to be $15-20. Which seems like the industry average.

$25 would be nice. I'd pay that in a heartbeat.
But, really, there's *still* be people complaining at having to pay for the content twice or it being more than the price Paizo set for their PDFs (which was arbitrary, done when they were nowhere close to being the market leader, and also almost a decade ago).

And yeah, I never thought WotC should go back and give out free PDFs. That would be ridiculous. And the ship has sailed for the bundle idea as well. Which doesn't mean that they can't change things for moving forward.

I think they should probably just stick with their current scheme until there's an edition reset (barring adding PDFs to the Guild). Too late for a major change or to start bundling.
If they started including discs with new releases, there'd be this push to include them in the core books. And then even more people complaining about having to buy new copies.

While doing my session prep, having PDFs that I can cut-and-paste monster stats, magic items and the like is useful. When creating/leveling a character doing the same for spells know is also useful.

There is the SRD and Basic Rules. While not everything, it has a lot.

And, again, a $5 scanner app with OCR will let you snap a pic of a page, send it to yourself, and then cut-and-paste with minimal clean-up.

Also an app that doesn't support houserules or manual changes would fall short for many.

I believe the plan is for D&D Beyond to support house rules and homebrew. If it doesn't already...