D&D 5E Do Fighter Battlemaster Superiority dice feel magical?

[Horwath]

The only BM maneuver that feels magical to me is Pushing Attack. Especially with a ranged weapon.

That can be explained that archer aims to hit you while you are little off balance on your back foot so the hit forces you to take few step back to regain balance.

 

[Nevvur]

That can be explained that archer aims to hit you while you are little off balance on your back foot so the hit forces you to take few step back to regain balance.

Yeah, but 15 feet? And every time the ranged BM declares a pushing attack he's catching someone off balance? What if he's throwing a dart? What if the opponent is standing on the edge of ledge and doesn't have physical space to take a few steps back?

I understand the point behind your example, that we can abstract the mechanics into the narrative, but throwing an opponent 15 feet with any ranged weapon (and even most melee attacks) simply stretches the idea of a non-magical attack to me.

 

[Horwath]

Yeah, but 15 feet? And every time the ranged BM declares a pushing attack he's catching someone off balance? What if he's throwing a dart? What if the opponent is standing on the edge of ledge and doesn't have physical space to take a few steps back?

15ft is a lot. As for cliff, well, you fall off

 

[Nevvur]

15ft is a lot. As for cliff, well, you fall off

In my games, I have a "soft rule" where if you get pushed 10 feet or further from a ledge, you don't have a chance to catch it on the way down. In the example narrative of being forced to take a few steps back, that suggests he should immediately start falling and have a chance to catch the ledge, whereas my soft rule indicates the opponent would have no such chance.

--

Back to the OP, my original answer was more directed at the maneuvers themselves, but your actual question was whether the dice feel magical. To this I say yes, but only in the sense that it feels weird not being able to do any of those maneuvers at will an unlimited number of times.

 

[Krachek]

Because the most common complaint about any new martial abilities is that they feel to magical. I'm trying to figure out if the options present in the PHB and other books also bring about those same kinds of complaints. Either way, I'm interested in finding out why they do or do not.

People are more cool about this these days.
During the play test any fighter feature that was not at will was inacceptable for some poster.
And the second wind for fighter was a blasphemy for some purist.

Time pass.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

I answered yes, but what I really want to say is that they feel supernatural. If they were just combat maneuvers they could be used any time it was appropriate. That could include only being able to pull a specific one once while fighting a specific opponent, only if you have flanking (obviously we don't have flanking), any time you hit and exceed the target AC by 5 or more for example.

I understand why they did it, because it would be too difficult to set up "appropriate situations" when you could execute a maneuver which may include some exhaustion mechanic.

But it feels like 4E where every character that had "powers" that were limited based on arbitrary times per day or encounter. It felt like a pure game mechanic from a play standpoint. From a simulation aspect it feels supernatural, or magic.

If special maneuvers were always available then they wouldn't be special anymore. Essentially Superiority Dice are on cool down once used, refreshing on a simple Short Rest so that they're available in many/most combats.

 

[Gardens & Goblins]

Any sufficiently advanced sub-class's system is indistinguishable from magic. - Arthur C. Clarke

 

[TwoSix]

Mine mostly feel smooth, with the occasional points.

 

[Oofta]

If special maneuvers were always available then they wouldn't be special anymore. Essentially Superiority Dice are on cool down once used, refreshing on a simple Short Rest so that they're available in many/most combats.

Yes, it's just a game mechanic, and a common one from video games. That doesn't make it natural - hence supernatural. That battlemaster PC in character doesn't know diddly about "superiority dice".

Compare battle maneuvers to say the shield master feat. I can use shield master all day long - even if if may not work. There's no "cooldown" or waiting period, just the basic game mechanic of only being able to do so many things on your turn. Shield master would make sense in an action movie, battlemaster maneuvers would not.

I'm not saying it's a horrible mechanic (although I don't care for it). Just that it only makes sense as an artificial game mechanic that has no in-world justification.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

Yes, it's just a game mechanic, and a common one from video games. That doesn't make it natural - hence supernatural. That battlemaster PC in character doesn't know diddly about "superiority dice".

Compare battle maneuvers to say the shield master feat. I can use shield master all day long - even if if may not work. There's no "cooldown" or waiting period, just the basic game mechanic of only being able to do so many things on your turn. Shield master would make sense in an action movie, battlemaster maneuvers would not.

I'm not saying it's a horrible mechanic (although I don't care for it). Just that it only makes sense as an artificial game mechanic that has no in-world justification.

Shield Master is a Feat vs Battlemaster being a progressive Class Feature. But I see your point. You can argue that Maneuvers have a supernatural feel in that they can allow an element of fantastical capability to the fighter. But that's more flavor than mechanic. It's like when Captain America bounces his shield to hit three Hydra Agents. You could say that's not really possible (supernatural) but he's just that good.