D&D 5E Do I get sneak attack if I throw a Rapier or whack someone with my heavy crossbow

[fearsomepirate]

A 3' tall halfling with 20 STR can deadlift twice as much weight as a 6' tall human with 10 STR. He can't use a longbow effectively because he's too short to hold and draw it properly. This is no obstacle to him gripping a longbow in the middle and striking you on the shins with it for a trivial amount of damage. Similarly, there is no obstacle whatsoever preventing said halfling from striking you on the kneecap with an 8-lb frying pan, despite said pan being heavier than a greatsword, which he would wield with disadvantage. A hand crossbow is well-balanced for aiming with one hand, not for using as a make shift club. A rapier is designed to be thrust precisely, not thrown. Etc.

If you want realism, we might as well account for the chance that you would break your hand crossbow when cracking somebody on the head with it, or bending your rapier when you throw it, and so on. 5e tends to trade realism for simplicity: non-proficient STR attack, 1d4 damage.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

These discussions aren’t really for that. They’re for us (most of whom are DMs) to talk shop. The OP’s question is ultimately just a springboard we use to get a discussion going about our different interpretations of the rules, and hopefully in doing so, to come to a more nuanced understanding of them.

I like this reasoning. I know that my personal DMing style has evolved tremendously just from reading and participating in these discussions over the past few years. I'm ultimately here to learn and, hopefully, pay it forward to help others with ideas that might benefit their tables, too.

Or, if we’re being very honest, to get that unique cocktail of cortisol and dopamine that comes from arguing with people on the internet.

LOL. Also true! Some take this to an entirely different level, though - perhaps to a different plane of existence if we want to frame it in D&D terms. I sometimes wonder if those folks are even receptive at all to learning something that might improve their game. Perhaps debate has replaced D&D as their true hobby.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

They can have the same strength score, yes, but strength score alone does not represent the totality of a character’s physical might. Features like powerful build and the heavy property of some weapons express differences in overall strength without having to penalize characters’ strength scores based on race.

But that's not it with longbows. The force of the arrow is (pretty much) directly proportional to how far back you can pull the bow string (Hook's law). If your arms are short you can't pull the bowstring back so far, no matter how strong you are.

Need to design a bugbear bow, that takes advantage of their disproportionately long arms.

It's reasonable, and historically accurate, to treat an unstrung longbow as a quarterstaff. In which case it no longer has the ammunition, heavy, or two handed traits or the martial ranged weapon type. It does have the versatile trait and the simple melee weapon type. It also becomes a valid target for the Shillelagh spell.

 

[Tonguez]

Of course, the notion that you could throw a goblin with Dexterity also relies on the DM ruling that you can use a goblin as an improvised weapon, which I personally would not. A goblin is too unwieldy to be used as a weapon in my opinion.

Rule of cool

 

[clearstream]

That text describes the property range, which weapons with the Thrown and Ammunition feature have. It does not define the ranged weapon category.

Even though it says "ranged weapon" and not " range"?

 

[Coroc]

Assuming I meet the other criteria.

The rules are pretty clear that a thrown rapier has a 20/60 range and does 1d4. A heavy crossbow you swing at someone likewise does 1d4 (and so does a hand crossbow which makes no sense). The rules for sneak attack say .... "The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon" The rapier is technically a finesse weapon, and the crossbow is technically a ranged weapon so I think RAW I get SA (assuming I meet the other criteria).

While I am at it, if I throw a Goblin at someone do I use dexterity on the attack roll?

nope, both are improvised weapons. Also i doubt that you can throw a rapier in any meaningful way since 70% of its mass are concentrated around the hilt. So you have no chance to hit with the piercing end.
i would also rule that you have disadvantage and deal a max of 1 damage.
the xbow as a club is a bit more believable, still also improvised weapon, meaning no prof boon and eventually a chance it might break.
your pc aint chuck norris who can find 1399 items to kill you in any given surroundings.

 

[Oofta]

But that's not it with longbows. The force of the arrow is (pretty much) directly proportional to how far back you can pull the bow string (Hook's law). If your arms are short you can't pull the bowstring back so far, no matter how strong you are.

Need to design a bugbear bow, that takes advantage of their disproportionately long arms.

It's reasonable, and historically accurate, to treat an unstrung longbow as a quarterstaff. In which case it no longer has the ammunition, heavy, or two handed traits or the martial ranged weapon type. It does have the versatile trait and the simple melee weapon type. It also becomes a valid target for the Shillelagh spell.

The rules do state "Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such."

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Also i doubt that you can throw a rapier in any meaningful way since 70% of its mass are concentrated around the hilt.

Indeed. It's actually something you see in old swashbuckler movies - a downed character throws their rapier, and their opponent bats it aside. The downed character uses the brief distraction to escape. It never does any damage though. In 5e terms it would be "take a disengage action".

 

[Maxperson]

It has all the "bulk" of a quarterstaff. With the longbow, I expect it is supposed to be draw distance - the distance between the hand that holds the bow, and the cheek to which you draw, simply isn't long enough on small characters.

Not just draw distance, but draw height as well. A longbow is 6' tall, so on a 3' character the PC would be nocking and drawing the bow at the top of his head. That would be awkward as hell.

 

[Maxperson]

So it is! Excellent observation. Guess I would be house ruling then

I'd allow it as a two handed improvised weapon. You could grab it by both feet and swing it around pretty darned hard.