D&D 5E Do you feel like the "Sorcerer" is really lacking in options?

[Vael]

While I also want more subclasses (and metamagics), what I also think would help is some unique spells. The Sorcerer spell list is mostly a subset of the wizard's, with only a handful of Druid spells. There's nothing that only exists on the Sorcerer list. I'd like a Sorcerer equivalent of Hex, or Vicious Mockery. Having some spells that aren't innately on other spell lists would help the Sorcerer out.

 

[MoonSong]

Yes, they do need more options, BUT, as an interesting side note, they are excellent as villains. Really. Try using one.

"Evil wizards" are traditional villains and imho Sorcerers are very, very good in the role, better than frail Wizards. Draconic ancenstry. Chaotic magic. More importantly, some very useful features, especially from draconic blood...

- Augmented HP and AC, which is great for guys whose role is being beaten by swords and magic;
- Some metamagic tricks (notably Quickened and Twinned spells) are great to wreak havok with your limited high level spells. I Twinned a Chain Lightining to great effects once and I still smile thinking of that metamagic moment;
- Being probably higher level than the PCs, limited nr. of spells and limited sorcery points will not be an issue, not going to last long anyway;
- Finally, at high level they can fly and resist some damage which is not bad.

So, great Evil Wizard Villains Sorcerers do, I say.

No, sorcerers aren't evil, it is just slanderous propaganda propagated by the evil wizard overlords who actively resent them. They are even working to modify the rules of the universe to take away sorcerer magic bit by bit....

 

[Fralex]

One thing I haven't seen brought up yet is the fact that although sorcerers get less spells known, every level they can replace a known spell with a different known spell. That extra versatility has been really useful to me because I don't need to worry about being stuck with a poorly-chosen spell if something isn't as useful as I thought it would be. Or if we're currently in an area where one particular spell is unusually helpful, I can just learn it for that leg of the adventure and replace it afterward. It encourages people to experiment with their spell lists, which I like.

 

[MoonSong]

One thing I haven't seen brought up yet is the fact that although sorcerers get less spells known, every level they can replace a known spell with a different known spell. That extra versatility has been really useful to me because I don't need to worry about being stuck with a poorly-chosen spell if something isn't as useful as I thought it would be. Or if we're currently in an area where one particular spell is unusually helpful, I can just learn it for that leg of the adventure and replace it afterward. It encourages people to experiment with their spell lists, which I like.

You say that as if it was a sorcerer-exclusive, it isn't. Bards, Warlock, Rangers, Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters, all can do it. And being able to retrain doesn't really help if you can't choose a useful spell. And even if you could, you are still stuck for a long time with the same useless spell.

 

[Fralex]

You say that as if it was a sorcerer-exclusive, it isn't. Bards, Warlock, Rangers, Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters, all can do it. And being able to retrain doesn't really help if you can't choose a useful spell. And even if you could, you are still stuck for a long time with the same useless spell.

Uh-huh, it's not exclusive, but it's still super-helpful to me. And happily, I am able to choose useful spells.

 

[famousringo]

One thing I haven't seen brought up yet is the fact that although sorcerers get less spells known, every level they can replace a known spell with a different known spell. That extra versatility has been really useful to me because I don't need to worry about being stuck with a poorly-chosen spell if something isn't as useful as I thought it would be. Or if we're currently in an area where one particular spell is unusually helpful, I can just learn it for that leg of the adventure and replace it afterward. It encourages people to experiment with their spell lists, which I like.

I don't really feel that one spell per level is enough 'versatility' that a spell can be swapped in and out for one leg of an adventure, or do much experimentation. I mean, clerics, druids and wizards can swap spells every day. Warlocks get to swap both a spell and an incantation every level. Bards really get to experiment by snatching spells right off the list of another class. All of them have ritual magic that takes pressure off both spells known and spell slots.

Sorcerers are the least versatile caster in the game, with the least room to experiment. Every spell they pick has to be awesome. For the sorcerer, retraining on level up isn't a chance to tinker so much as an essential tool to get rid of anything that isn't reliably awesome.

 

[Fralex]

I don't really feel that one spell per level is enough 'versatility' that a spell can be swapped in and out for one leg of an adventure, or do much experimentation. I mean, clerics, druids and wizards can swap spells every day. Warlocks get to swap both a spell and an incantation every level. Bards really get to experiment by snatching spells right off the list of another class. All of them have ritual magic that takes pressure off both spells known and spell slots.

Sorcerers are the least versatile caster in the game, with the least room to experiment. Every spell they pick has to be awesome. For the sorcerer, retraining on level up isn't a chance to tinker so much as an essential tool to get rid of anything that isn't reliably awesome.

Hmm, that gives me an idea. Would it be cool if sorcerers could swap out, like, up to three spells known for different ones? That might not be as thematic, though. I get the impression the relatively low amount of spells sorcerers master is because sorcery isn't an established magical tradition others can train you in. All your spells are magical effects you've worked out on your own, so it makes sense you'd only know how to do a few things. But because you figured out the spells by yourself, you have an inherent understanding of how they work and can modify them in different ways.

I guess you've had a different experience playing a sorcerer, because I'm having a lot of fun with the class, but I'm all for finding ways to make it better.

 

[Minigiant]

One idea I had (I have many ideas on sorcerers as I use them heavily for NPCs) is "scholarly" sorcerer or sorcerer pureblood. Either from a sorcerer school or a bloodline of sorcerers, the sorcerer has decades of sorcerer magic to learn from but has blood thinning to the source.

This sorcerer gets more spells known and an extra metamagic but no dragon buffs or chaos warping. It fits the "unthemed" sorcerer some want. The issue is balance. Messing with the formula for magic classes can easily break sessions.

 

[Kalshane]

One idea I had (I have many ideas on sorcerers as I use them heavily for NPCs) is "scholarly" sorcerer or sorcerer pureblood. Either from a sorcerer school or a bloodline of sorcerers, the sorcerer has decades of sorcerer magic to learn from but has blood thinning to the source.

This sorcerer gets more spells known and an extra metamagic but no dragon buffs or chaos warping. It fits the "unthemed" sorcerer some want. The issue is balance. Messing with the formula for magic classes can easily break sessions.

I made an "Arcane Bloodline" sorcerer for my home games along those lines (inspired by the Pathfinder version.) Some extra spells known and some limited ability to pick from the Wizard rather than sorcerer list, plus Find Familiar for free. No one's played one yet, so I can't say how balanced it is.

 

[houser2112]

I made an "Arcane Bloodline" sorcerer for my home games along those lines (inspired by the Pathfinder version.) Some extra spells known and some limited ability to pick from the Wizard rather than sorcerer list, plus Find Familiar for free. No one's played one yet, so I can't say how balanced it is.

Don't tease us, let's see it!