D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[MuhVerisimilitude]

Changjng the power significantly making it less useful is not changing the presentation. You just made it a weaker, explicitly supernatural ability.

It is explicitly NOT supernatural. There is nothing supernatural about what I just wrote.

Screw it. It is 0% supernatural.

I will not budge on this.

 

[Oofta]

...
Actually I did like the principle of this power. I also endorsed the stickiness of the base fighter even when using not a single power. But yes. Always trying to find an excuse for powers became tedious. And after a while noone vothered about telling a story anymore. We just shouted the power name and played it like a board game... dsspite our best efforts.

Same here. Ultimately it just felt like we were trying to make the game into something it was not.

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

I agree with your rewrite. This is how I would do it. But this is chamging the mechanics as well as the presentation.

And it is still martial magic. Better, but still not good.
How about mindless creatures? Only humanoid targets that can fall for your feint. Maybe animals too?

I did like 4e and I still do like those powers. But my problem with them was always that you had to bend the story around game mechanics. And at some point you just pushed your buttons in a certain way.

If powers were written with story in mind, all could have been different. But this would have needed that you don't have one use of every power, but a choice of powers you could use several times. If a power does not work against certain foes, you needed an alternative one. That was my main issue.

I actually have a better idea now that I realised that there is an ability in Pathfinder 2E that I can let my design be inspired by.

"Every potential target within the affected area that can see you and which is ready for combat rolls a will save. If they fail this save they become immune to it for the next 24 hours and get to chose:

• They move next to you and you get a free attack against them
• They become frightened for <some duration>."

While this will obviously not be enough for a lot of people, this takes away the compulsion complaint entirely because now it is up to the GM to decide the reaction and the GM is not forced to make a particular choice.

This transforms the ability into the result of a failed save becoming a forced choice between several non-attractive options.

Mechanically this is no different from having a functional 3.5 style grapple and grappling an NPC in battle. The character would be forced to chose between breaking free or trying to fight while grappled, which is identical to a non-magical ability forcing a choice between two bad options. Because that's what it is.

 

[Oofta]

It is explicitly NOT supernatural. There is nothing supernatural about what I just wrote.

Screw it. It is 0% supernatural.

I will not budge on this.

And I will not budge that I don't care about the label. Doesn't really matter any more.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Come And Get It was great. The problem was the presentation and not the effect.

4e made a thing of abilities being able to be reflavoured. But not everyone took notice and/or was able to come up with that on the fly.

 

[Oofta]

I actually have a better idea now that I realised that there is an ability in Pathfinder 2E that I can let my design be inspired by.

"Every potential target within the affected area that can see you and which is ready for combat rolls a will save. If they fail this save they become immune to it for the next 24 hours and get to chose:

• They move next to you and you get a free attack against them
• They become frightened for <some duration>."

While this will obviously not be enough for a lot of people, this takes away the compulsion complaint entirely because now it is up to the GM to decide the reaction and the GM is not forced to make a particular choice.

This transforms the ability into the result of a failed save becoming a forced choice between several non-attractive options.

Mechanically this is no different from having a functional 3.5 style grapple and grappling an NPC in battle. The character would be forced to chose between breaking free or trying to fight while grappled, which is identical to a non-magical ability forcing a choice between two bad options. Because that's what it is.

You literally do not see the difference between physically grabbing someone and mystically forcing them to choose from specific actions based on nothing other than your desire that they do so?

If you like the style of game that has powers like this that's fine. I just don't see how you can day that something that approximates real world wrestling is exactly the same.

 

[Micah Sweet]

4e made a thing of abilities being able to be reflavoured. But not everyone took notice and/or was able to come up with that on the fly.

Or actually liked reflavoring and thought it was as good an idea as 4e seemed to.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Or actually liked reflavoring and thought it was as good an idea as 4e seemed to.

I'm assuming honesty. Not liking something is not the same as being unable to come up with new flavour.

 

[mamba]

I don't believe the person you are arguing with has ever stated that they can always use a feature, no matter what the situation.

Are we reading the same posts? I'd say they clearly advocate for the feature always working, even in the Ravenloft example

And this is something you're reading back into the features that isn't there. There's no requirement, explicitly stated or otherwise, that you know or are known by someone.

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

You literally do not see the difference between physically grabbing someone and mystically forcing them to choose from specific actions based on nothing other than your desire that they do so?

If you like the style of game that has powers like this that's fine. I just don't see how you can day that something that approximates real world wrestling is exactly the same.

What do you mean mystically? That's a supernaturally charged word. Are psychologists mystics because they can affect the inner workings of your mind?

What about commercials?

What about the deception skill?