D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[Clint_L]

I don't think it's a problem if popularity is a design goal. I mean, presumably everyone who creates something that they need to sell has popularity as one of their design goals.

But popularity is a contextual term. Popular with whom, and to what degree? For example, if I am designing a new skateboard, I don't worry about making it popular with every human being. I focus on 1) skateboarders, 2) prospective skateboarders.

A design goal of making an edition of D&D that will be popular with current and prospective players just seems like the obvious thing to do. This doesn't mean that the designers are creatively bankrupt, it just means that they have a logical goal.

Popular is often used as a dirty word when applied to the arts, but I think that's often just snobbery. I do think it is a problem if popularity is the only goal, such as making a cheap knock-off version seeking to ride the coattails of a popular brand, but even there I don't think it is an ethical issue. I just think it is a problem because those sorts of knock-offs generally suck. But if you are trying to make a great product that will appeal to your target audience, then there is nothing wrong with seeking popularity. It would be illogical to to do otherwise.

And checking in with your target audience during the design phase is normal. If I'm designing that skateboard, I'm definitely consulting with skateboarders during the process. It would be crazy not to.

 

[mamba]

Nope. By this logic anything that does customer surveys would have popularity as a design goal.

not sure how that is not true, with the point that @Lanefan made about the poll results influencing product design

 

[mamba]

you can't design a good game just by making it popular.

I agree, just like good design does not mean a game will be popular.

The playtest therefore will necessarily result in a popular game, but not necessarily in a good one…

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I don’t want to be a jerk but if you think WOTC is doing surveys to make “art” vs. products the consumer will like and subsequently purchase…

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I agree, just like good design does not mean a game will be popular.

The playtest therefore will necessarily result in a popular game, but not necessarily in a good one…

It won't even end in a popular game if they just put every popular option in. This is just not how all that works.

Look at the playtest results. If they put everything in that made it to 80%+ unmodified, that game will be an unbalanced mess. And the designers know that. They presented different elements and need to design the game with that in mind.

 

[mamba]

It won't even end in a popular game if they just put every popular option in. This is just not how all that works.

agreed, they still do some design on top, but the criteria they look for in their design is popularity, not some abstract ‘good design’, however you want to define that

Basically any design they propose is ‘good enough’ and then popularity wins out

 

[UngeheuerLich]

agreed, they still do some design on top, but the criteria they look for in their design is popularity, not some abstract ‘good design’, however you want to define that

Basically any design they propose is ‘good enough’ and then popularity wins out

That is just an assumption. Popular right now may not be popular in a few months. Without any foundation, there is no lasting success.

While it is not dumb to listen to customers, without an idea what you want to design, all that is worthless.

 

[mamba]

That is just an assumption. Popular right now may not be popular in a few months.

if they believed that, they had no reason to poll

While it is not dumb to listen to customers, without an idea what you want to design, all that is worthless.

I am not saying they do not design and just listen to customer’s ideas, but popularity will kick out good designs and redirect them to create a different good design. The goal of the playtest still is to determine (and ensure) popularity

 

[Hussar]

Only if those doing the survey allow the results to dictate what gets included and what does not.

Most of the time, customer surveys are done post-hoc in order to see how an already-released design is faring among those who have bought/used it and-or to determine if there is interest in it among those who don't yet have one.

Here, WotC's doing the surveys side-along with the design process and allowing the survey results to more or less dictate what gets designed and how that design is implemented. And thus, clearly, in this case popularity is their most top-of-mind concern.

This is 100% what the fandom demanded though. WotC is not allowed to develop stuff independently because then they are “out of touch “ with fandom.

The fandom got what it demanded. You can’t then complain that WotC is doing what they were told to do by fans.

You want WotC to be creative? Stop burying them any time they step a toe out of line.

 

[Oofta]

I agree, just like good design does not mean a game will be popular.

True.

The playtest therefore will necessarily result in a popular game, but not necessarily in a good one…

That's quite the non sequitur you've got going there. A truly bad game is unlikely to be successful, but unless there's a monopoly (there isn't) it has to be good for a large part of the population in order to be successful.