Dropping Intelligence

[UltimaGabe]

I like having the same number of physical and mental stats. So, 3+3 or 2+2.

Ooh- I just had an interesting idea.

Does anyone think there's a bit of a parallel between the Physical Stats and the Mental Stats? I mean, take a look at them:

Strength
Dexterity
Constitution

vs.

Intelligence
Wisdom
Charisma

Now, look at them in pairs: Strength-Intelligence, Dexterity-Wisdom, and Constitution-Charisma. It seems to me that, from a concept standpoint, each pair is essentially the same thing- at least, in the base concept- varied between your body and your mind. Look at Strength and Intelligence, for example. Strength is how you use your body to its best potential, and Intelligence is how you use your mind to its best potential. If two ability scores have ever been rivals of each other, it's these two- you always see the cheesy cartoons that try to show that if something can't be solved by strength, try intelligence, and the Strong fighter against the Intelligent fighter always seems to be a common archetype. (A strong guy can just hit a door really hard to break it, and a smart guy can use some sort of a lever-dealy to try and pry the door open.)

Then, look at Dexterity and Wisdom- Dexterity is how well you react to your surroundings, whereas Wisdom is how you perceive your surroundings. Most Dexterity-based skill checks are opposed by Wisdom-based skill checks- such as Hide vs. Spot, and Listen vs. Move Silently.

Now, look at Constitution and Charisma. Constitution is how strong and pronounced your body is- and Charisma is how strong and pronounced your personality is. It's not reflected much in the skills of D&D, but it seems to work out well.

Anyone think I'm onto something?

 

[Nifft]

Ooh- I just had an interesting idea.
[...]
Anyone think I'm onto something?

Well, you're catching up to something.

Str = Cha (both are "force" -- force of arms vs. force of personality)

Dex = Int (both are "flexibility" -- tumble through combat vs. jump to conclusion)

Con = Wis (both are "resiliance" -- resist toxin vs. resist mental influence)


Now, White Wolf (Vampire, Exalted, etc.) has 3x3 -- Force, Flexibility and Resiliance each in the arenas of Mind, Body and Social -- but D&D mostly ignores that silly "non-combat" part.

IMHO, it'd be enough to have just the 2x2 -- Force & Flexibility, Mental & Physical -- and base Resiliance on race, class & Feats.

-- N

 

[Baragos]

"Intelligence is a player factor, not a character factor"

I can see you point, but the CHA should be removed too, cause it is how the player roleplays that determines how likable his character is. And wisdom, cause stupid is also a factor of unwise.

So now we have a system with 3 stats: Str, Dex, and Con. But wait, Con represent the ability to survive certain dangers. Why not base that on how many times you can hit the player with a LARP weapon without him starting to cry. And when they make Dex or Str checks, have them do acrobatic stunts or weightlifting...no wait, this IS LARPing...

 

[Stalker0]

"Intelligence is a player factor, not a character factor"

I think the reason mental stats are there in the first place, is to allow a player to play something he's not (which is the whole point of roleplaying in the first place).

So a player can play the genius, the intuitive, or the silver-tongue beauty even if they are not these things in life.

However, as has been talked about many times over on these forums...the mechanics don't really live up to that promise. Your character might be a genius, but when it comes down to the rp, the mechanics can't really cover for a player whose, well....not a genius

 

[Baragos]

But the rules also cannot cover for a socially inept player trying to be the greatest diplomat in the world...

 

[Cheiromancer]

But the rules also cannot cover for a socially inept player trying to be the greatest diplomat in the world...

Your point being?

Some players have a knack for playing some characters and not others. Some people can make a bard work well in a party, but their monk characters die after one session. For another player the situation is reversed. Is it such a stretch to say that the same thing applies to skill clusters? Some people can play characters with lots of social skills; another can't.

High charisma does not necessarily mean the character is likeable. Some players can use the mechanic of charisma to portray a likeable character, but others might not be able to pull it off. They have to find other character gifts to represent the high charisma with. Maybe a brilliant craftsman or inventor, or a powerful (but irritating) paladin or sorcerer.

But if all this is true (and I think it is), it has nothing to do with whether intelligence is a character statistic or not.