Critical Role Echo Knight is Wildemount's Most Popular Subclass

D&D Beyond shared some stats about the things people are using from Explorers Guide to Wildemount. These are stats from 28 million characters.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

So yeah...I'd say there is one spell that's overpowered and it's the one you highlighted, Magnify Gravity. And it's not VERY overpowered, it's just probably a 2nd level spell listed as a 1st level spell. Don't get me wrong - I would take that spell. But, if it were a 2nd level spell, I think it would be essentially the same as a Shatter spell, which is what I'd call a decent 2nd level spell.

I mean to me that is pretty significantly overpowered. It's not game breaking, but basically being an entire spell-level higher is in effect is kind of a big deal.

The issues with some of the other spells support a contention that this was not adequately playtested, I note (for example the Temporal Shunt upcasting thing being a nonsense - I can't think of any PHB or Xanathars spells that have that issue - I mean crummy upcasting, sure, but nonsensical?).

 

[Mistwell]

Until the familiar is hit by something, dies, and drops your bead on the floor where an enemy can pick it up...

It's with you.

And while this is a strong item, it is not the most popular rare item in D&D according to D&D Beyond stats.

Meaningless. You don't choose magic items in 5e.

Pretty much every guide you can think of ranks it at or near the top due to it's ability to allow two concentration spells at one time.

And it cannot be used by a familiar like this one can.

And it cannot get around casting time like this one can.

The item has not ruined any games I have seen, and I have seen it used a few times. Yes. 10th level abilities are supposed to be useful... and one that alters casting times, effectively, is suitable for this class. Intentionally so, I believe. However, it is far from a broken thing. There are others, such as Glyph of Warding. However, that is irrelevant. New abilities are intended to be, you know, new. Not repeats. Most abilities break an existing rule of the game - that is why they are a benefit to the class. Because it allows them to do something nobody else can

This is silly spin. There is NOTHING in the ability description which highlights this aspect of the ability. This is not the theme of the ability. 90% of spells would see no change from that aspect of the ability and it doesn't call out that aspect in any way. It's obviously an unintended consequence of the text they used for this ability. Probably because Mercer's players never tried it that way or just assumed it worked like a ring of spell storing.

Come on jgsugden, you know this is not what they meant by that ability. Why are you pretending this particular aspect is what was the "benefit to the class" and the thing which "allows them to do something nobody else can" when it's got nothing to do with the fluff about this ability and is just a loophole they didn't catch?

You know, maybe we shouldn't debate this. I am just going to ask Crawford how this works with spells with a casting time longer than 1 action and see what he says. I am betting that was not the intent.

 

[Todd Roybark]

It's not game breaking, but basically being an entire spell-level higher is in effect is kind of a big deal.

So Ruin, do you also find the Guiding Bolt spell to “basically being an entire spell level higher”?

Guiding Bolt’s average damage is essentially 1 point below the expected average damage for a 2nd level Single Target damage spell, based off the chart in the DMG on page 284.

Guiding Bolt is a ranged spell attack, (which to my mind), means the spell is less swingy than a spell saving throw, especially at low levels.

Guiding Bolt also grants Advantage on the next attack roll against the target, and based off the description of “mystical, dim light glittering on the target” one could infer a conference of penalties to Hide actions for the target.

Magnify Gravity is 5 points bellow the expected average damage for a 2nd level multi-target spell, based off the DMG table on page 284. Con save for half damage.

The speed penalty for Magnify Gravity is less DM dependent, vis a vis, a ruling that a Shatter spell turns a stone floor into rubble strewn Difficult terrain, and avoids being nerfed by the Mobile feat negation of Difficult terrain.

It seems a toss up regarding Magnify Gravity’s Str check to pick up unattended objects, versus Shatter’s destruction of non magical objects.

Shatter can blow apart a locked door. Magnify Gravity can make it so one could not pick up their sword or boots from the ground for 6 seconds.

Shatter is the blast spell for bards, a very utility forward spell list.

Clerics at 1st level have the two best Single Target spells: Inflict Wounds and Guiding Bolt.

Magnify Gravity is a restricted spell at Character Level 1. It is a powerful AOE, for a class level 2, Rare Wizard subclass. The spell does less damage, than the Bard’s best 2nd level AOE.

Magnify Gravity is not better alternative for Dragon’s Breath.

So, I actually, do not feel, the Magnify Gravity spell is equal to a 2nd level spell when cast using a 1st level slot. It is equal to Shatter when upcast.

I would concur with the conclusion that Magnify Gravity, is a top tier 1st level spell, a functional replacement for the Shatter spell, (one does not need both spells), and a bit overpowered.

Not broken.

 

[jgsugden]

….Come on jgsugden, you know this is not what they meant by that ability. Why are you pretending this particular aspect is what was the "benefit to the class" and the thing which "allows them to do something nobody else can" when it's got nothing to do with the fluff about this ability and is just a loophole they didn't catch?

Why would I "pretend" that a TIME wizard being able to modify casting TIME was likely intentional...? I .. don't … even … know how to respond. Perhaps the School of Evocation being able to modify evocations was unintended too....

You know, maybe we shouldn't debate this. I am just going to ask Crawford how this works with spells with a casting time longer than 1 action and see what he says. I am betting that was not the intent.

You're going to ask him what the intent was or how the ability works? Because nobody is debating how it works.

Regardless, if you feel it is uber-broken and going to ruin the game - more power to you. We'll see if there is a massive call to errata it, or if everyone is playing it, or any other evidence of it being uber-broken in a year. I'm very confident that it will not be seen as a problem in any way outside of a few folks that can't admit being wrong.

 

[Undrave]

So a Fighter that does more than whack people with a sharp stick is POPULAR?! Imagine that! /s

Lots of orders flying around here all of a sudden...prove this, explain that, I challenge you to etc. etc. etc. Maybe we could ease up a bit on all the vitriol? This is a game, not a corporate merger. ;-)

Clearly it should be resolved by a good old duel in a children's card game.

 

[Retreater]

When did you last actually use the D&D Beyond sheets in an actual game? Because if it was like, years ago, I can understand you take. At the beginning, it was kind of dreadful and yes worse than the 4E character sheets in the DDI.

Now? No. The character sheets work superbly. It's improved a huge amount. Don't write it off because of past experienced.

To use Beyond for online play, you get the Beyond20 extension for Chrome, and the DM can then have it feed data in directly to Roll20. Like, I adjust my HP on beyond, it goes down on Roll20. This isn't theoretical. I did this yesterday. To roll something, you click on it. To have advantage/disadvantage you either click twice, or better you click on the Beyond20 icon, switch rolls to the appropriate one, then click on the other thing.

I used it Friday night (so like 3 nights ago).
And the stuff you describe, the HP tracking and marking advantage/disadvantage is already done on the Roll20 sheet.
So the reason you give to use D&D Beyond is that it can work with Roll20? When Roll20 already does it? And you have to have Roll20 (or another service) as a VTT.
I still don't understand why D&D Beyond exists. I use it only when required by a DM. And I greatly dislike it. It is a way to double the work (making a character on Roll20 and on here) and triple the cost (buying the hard copy, buying on Roll20, and on D&D Beyond).

 

[Mistwell]

Divination wizards can FORCE a FAILED SAVE.

Psst. Chronal Shift does this at second level as well. Not quite as well, but almost as likely (you force a re-roll as a reaction, AFTER you see if the first roll is a success or failure). AND they get a big bonus to init at that level. AND they can arrange for two concentration spells at once AND they can get around long casting times. Prayer of Healing as a single action spell here they come!

They are hand down better than any other wizard sub-class and it's not even close, as written. I'm telling yah, that part about ignoring casting time was not the intent. It's a big loophole. That's not the "time" part they meant for that part of that ability. The time part was shifting when the spell was cast to a future point, not the casting time!

 

[jgsugden]

Psst. Chronal Shift does this at second level as well. Not quite as well, but almost as likely (you force a re-roll as a reaction, AFTER you see if the first roll is a success or failure).

So, you think a guaranteed fail is nearly the same as a forced reroll?

AND they get a big bonus to init at that level. AND they can arrange for two concentration spells at once AND they can get around long casting times. Prayer of Healing as a single action spell here they come!

Wait - Prayer of Healing as a wizard? And you did notice that Diviners get a lot of abilities - like a huge number of extra spell slots, etc...

They are hand down better than any other wizard sub-class and it's not even close, as written.

Offer up a survey. See if people agree with you.

I'm telling yah, that part about ignoring casting time was not the intent. It's a big loophole.

Because it is soooooo hidden and not obvious? Isn't something you considered in the first few seconds of reading the description? You think it went through a year of development and nobody noticed it? Matt Mercer, who designed these (there are NPC chronomancers in his campaign) missed it for years?

That's not the "time" part they meant for that part of that ability. The time part was shifting when the spell was cast to a future point, not the casting time!

Yeah, you're making the assumption that it was hard to spot that '''loophole''''. It is not. It is something many of us saw in the first few seconds of reading the description - and as mentioned before, there are other methods of achieving the same thing already in the game. Glyph of warding, for example, can allow multiple concentration spells with no way to break concentration.

Again, I'm comfortable waiting a year and seeing what people think. This is a fun, but not broken or overpowered subclass. If you hold a poll in a year, it will absolutely not be ranked as the most powerful subclass.

 

[Mistwell]

Yeah, you're making the assumption that it was hard to spot that '''loophole''''. It is not. It is something many of us saw in the first few seconds of reading the description - and as mentioned before, there are other methods of achieving the same thing already in the game. Glyph of warding, for example, can allow multiple concentration spells with no way to break concentration.

The fact that, in response to my talking about the loophole, you mention something which can get multiple concentration spells up at once...tells me you don't even understand what the loophole is. THAT isn't the loophole. You can ALSO do that with this ability but that's not the loophole my man.

And yes, I definitely don't think Mercer spotted it as I don't think they used the ability that way. They used it like a ring of spell storing - I think they thought the wording was so similar it was obvious that's how it worked. Nobody was summoning steeds with a single action or conjuring minor elementals with a single action or using a third level spell slot to create an impenetrable barrier you can cast spells out of but foes cannot attack into.

And no, the wording does not make this aspect of it obvious. People were talking about multiple concentration spells, but not the avoiding long casting times. It is not in fact obvious from the text. Most reviews of the class didn't mention that aspect. It's only when you consider something like, "What would happen if I put a Hallucinatory Terrain spell in this thing" that you realize you can suddenly turn that otherwise pretty mediocre spell into a killer one-action battlefield control spell with this ability, once every short rest.

 

[Parmandur]

Yeah, by my reading the Chronourgist isn't overpowered by any means: the other Wizards at Level 10 get some sick stuff...the Wizard might be overpowered, though...