D&D 5E Eliminating darkvision from most races

[machineelf]

it just begs the question of why isn't dungeon already lit up if nothing can see in the dark?

Dangerous monsters (undead and other evil things) lurking in ancient dungeons can see in the dark, of course.

 

[machineelf]

Just be careful, as you can easily TPK a party if you don't take into account the lack of darkvision and adjust tactics accordingly.

My players have it too easy sooo ... I'm only seeing positives here.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

With the prevalence of darkvision, all that is lost. And that takes something special away, in my opinion.

I get where you are coming from, but perhaps you are misjudging the situation?

A party of characters that don't all have darkvision will probably choose to use a light source, whatever it may be, so that they don't have to have characters with darkvision lead the completely blind because they don't have darkvision characters around, and so the characters without darkvision can more easily do whatever their "job" in the party happens to be, since not being able to see out-right shuts down a lot of things a character might try to do (like picking targets for most spells) and disadvantages almost all of the rest.

And a party of characters that do all have darkvision, they have to make a choice in the darkness between A) having their vision extend only 60', and be at disadvantage to notice threats like traps or monsters, plus not be able to tell what color things are which can be a huge benefit (imagine looking at a slithering mass of ooze and being unable to gauge whether it is an ochre jelly or a black pudding), and B) lighting up a bullseye lantern and having their 60' field of vision in their choice of direction be bright light so not subject to the disadvantages mentioned above, and then have another 60' past that where-in they can still see, in color even, but with the above disadvantages otherwise applying. With the only additional downsides being a need to keep a stock of oil (not actually that big of a downside, since oil has other reasons to keep it on hand besides just providing fuel for a lantern), and signaling some opponents that you are coming (but you were probably already doing that by making noise, by smelling, or because creatures living in dark dungeons often have senses that provide them the advantage of noticing you even in the dark before your darkvision has an opportunity to notice them).

And if your players don't default to choosing to use light in most circumstances for the above stated reason, they probably will if you let them wind up in situations that highlight the disadvantages of their choice - such as drow with bows that ambush them on no merit besides being able to see them 120' away while it is still impossible for the party to see the drow, or when not being able to tell what color something is means the difference between realizing a threat is extremely dangerous and getting caught off-guard by it (the above ooze situation, or a patch of mold of indeterminate color proving to be a dangerous specimen, as examples)

 

[ArchfiendBobbie]

My players have it too easy sooo ... I'm only seeing positives here.

Oh, my group doesn't have it easy. Take a look at some of my posts on the Let's Read thread for Volo's. Devious encounters by intelligent creatures are common

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Also, people aren't going to learn the light cantrip regardless of how many people have darkvision. Cantrips are too valuable to waste a pick on the edge case scenario that you don't have a light source. You would need to start by doubling the number of cantrips casters get, and then you might see someone picking light instead of just using a lantern.

That's not completely accurate. People already learn the light cantrip with no alteration to how many cantrips anyone gets.

Sure, more often than not it will only be one character in the party that has it, but it is not at all a waste of a cantrip choice, even as one of the character's first 3 cantrips chosen. Because it has benefits that a torch or lantern doesn't have, like being able to toss your light-source down the hall without feeding heat to brown mold or breaking the light source, or drop it into water without it extinguishing, and generally not causing any smoke to obscure your vision or consuming your limit oxygen supply at a greater rate should you ever end up sealed in somewhere.

 

[The Human Target]

I'm not sure why you think having a black and white world filled with ill-defined shapes isn't atmospheric.

But taking away darkvision isn't as keen an idea as it seems, it just begs the question of why isn't dungeon already lit up if nothing can see in the dark?

Also, people aren't going to learn the light cantrip regardless of how many people have darkvision. Cantrips are too valuable to waste a pick on the edge case scenario that you don't have a light source. You would need to start by doubling the number of cantrips casters get, and then you might see someone picking light instead of just using a lantern.

In fact, lanterns kind of wreck any attempt at torching the place up too.

Because light sources can be extinguished.

They can be of varying strengths, providing areas of light and shadow.

They can be placed and moved.

They can run out of fuel.

Darkvision can do none of those things.

Also, a party is very likely to contain humans and halflings. So having a bunch of races with darkvision is already kind of pointless, as the party is going to need to carry light anyway.

 

[Caliburn101]

There are two things about Darkvision.

Firstly, mechanically it's fine.

Secondly, it is FAR too ubiquitous!

Everyone and their dog has it, leaving the likes of Halflings and Humans as the kind of sad 'also rans' that would never get invited to dungeon delves or underdark missions.

What is unrealistically played in many games is the utter lack of problems caused by creeping along in the dark with a light source lighting up your position, giving you away, making stealth absolutely impossible and announcing your arrival for as far as the eye can see.

Why would any adventurer group expecting to be in the dark on an adventure take races along that flag the party and guarantee frequently successful enemy ambushes?

They wouldn't...

However, bring back Low Light Vision, where dim light counts as normal, but total dark is still total, and just have Dark Vision as something reserved to underground living races only, and this problem goes away - as does the OPs valid points about atmosphere, fear of the dark, etc.

I am running a game currently with Low Light Vision replacing Darkvision except for Drow and Dvergar etc. and it works fine. No-one feels 'robbed' as in the vast majority of cases there are low level light sources in the darkness - stars, glowmoss, the moon, lava, the slight sunlight penetrating a full forest canopy... etc. In cases where there is utter darkness, yes, the party need light sources, but the low light vision races still get an advantage there at the extremes of the artificial light they aren't at disadvantage.

I greatly prefer this way of doing things - it feels 'right' and allows me to more easily build atmosphere where darkness and the unknown are factors.

 

[machineelf]

Just wanted to pop back in and say thanks to all who have offered various opinions here. Some of you have somewhat convinced me that there are other ways I can emphasize the limitations of darkvision, that plus the fact that humans, halflings, and dragonborn in the party may necessitate light sources anyway. I think I will work harder on emphasizing to my players the limitations of darkvision and the need for light sources in certain situations.

For now, since I am leading my players through adventurers in the Forgotten Realms, I will stick to the standard racial rules. But I am still going to give a lot of time and thought to having fewer races with darkvision in my own homebrewed campaign world. (Work in progress but coming along.) My personal feeling is still that 5th ed. is a bit out of balance with way too many races getting darkvision.

 

[ArchfiendBobbie]

Just wanted to pop back in and say thanks to all who have offered various opinions here. Some of you have somewhat convinced me that there are other ways I can emphasize the limitations of darkvision, that plus the fact that humans, halflings, and dragonborn in the party may necessitate light sources anyway. I think I will work harder on emphasizing to my players the limitations of darkvision and the need for light sources in certain situations.

For now, since I am leading my players through adventurers in the Forgotten Realms, I will stick to the standard racial rules. But I am still going to give a lot of time and thought to having fewer races with darkvision in my own homebrewed campaign world. (Work in progress but coming along.) My personal feeling is still that 5th ed. is a bit out of balance with way too many races getting darkvision.

Looking forward to seeing it!

 

[machineelf]

However, bring back Low Light Vision, where dim light counts as normal, but total dark is still total, and just have Dark Vision as something reserved to underground living races only, and this problem goes away - as does the OPs valid points about atmosphere, fear of the dark, etc.

Oh, nice suggestion. I might have to try this. So how would dim light work exactly? Would a human have disadvantage on perception checks, and low-light creatures not? Are there any other mechanics differences?