Epic Level Feats: I meet the pre-reqs, why can't I take it?

[Numion]

And the epic feat just screams of powergaming. If the person chooses to take that opinion and others that are similar personally (I assure you it was not directed that way) than don't ask.

Actually the feat just isn't that good. At higher levels you tend to encounter fewer foes of greater strength and AB's outstrip AC's, so you're better of taking the enemies by concentrating on one at a time, and the modifiers to normal iterative attacks don't matter that much.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Whatever the pre-reqs, swarm of arrows if definitely a feat that DOES feel very epic in its effect. Let's face it, it lets you fire an arrow at every single enemy within 30'. Nope, not a chance that this would get implemented in my game before 20th lvl.

So it is very similar to the high level arcane archer ability, hail of arrows? (except that has a max = arcane archer level IIRC)?

Allowing this feat before the level at which the arcane archer gets it as a class ability would seem to cheapen that prestige class...

 

[kreynolds]

Bottom line, don't make Epic feats with requirements 9th level characters can meet.

Check out Dire Charge. That's really gotta burn ya'.

 

[LazarusLong42]

Call me Munchkin... go ahead. You've called this poor guy munckin, and he just asked a rhetorical question. But personally, I can see a reason--cinematically--for something like this to be non-Epic. A fourth-level fighter can have Whirlwind Attack (BAB +4, 4 other feats). WWA is pretty darned cinematic--and against a swarm of enemies, can do a horrific amount of damage.

A fourth-level archer can shoot *two* arrows. Sure, he can do it from safely away, and archers are pretty cool to start with. So, what if we put the archer in some danger, make it a bit harder to take... and then make it non-Epic?

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Hail of Arrows [General, Fighter]

When faced with a multitude of close opponents, you can shoot with dazzling speed.

Prerequisites: Dex 19+, BAB +6 or higher, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (any bow)

Benefit: When performing a full attack action, you may forego your regular attacks and instead fire one arrow per point of base attack bonus at enemies within 10 feet. You may fire only one arrow at each enemy, and each shot uses your full attack bonus with a -2 penalty, as if using Rapid Shot. You may not take a five-foot step this round.
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When faced with extreme, acute danger, the archer can be just as cinematic as the greatsword-wielder--though the archer will almost certainly not do nearly as much damage, even at high levels, given that +4 cap on Strength bows.

 

[Datt]

On another note, I figured out 'why a BAB 9+ for an epic feat?' See, standard WOTC practice is, when printing prerequisites for a feat, to print all prerequisites for the entire chain leading up to that feat. So BAB +9 crept in - I'm assunign the feat in quesiton is Two-Weapon Rend, BTW - because BAB +9 is a prerequisite for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting. It's not a case of not thinking things through, it's a case of following the standards.

Yeah that is the feat. But if you look at Greater Two-Weapon Fighting it has the same Prereqs as Two Weapon Rend but has BAB of +15 instead. So you could take Two Weapon Rend before Greater Two-Weapon fighting as long as you were 21st level. That just doesn't sit right with me at all. It should be at least as high as GTW if not higher.

 

[Sejs]

There's actually a good number of 'Epic' feats that would fit in just fine in normal play, just to fill out the upper end of feats, with only minor tweaking (mainly of the pre-requisites) They are by no means, epic.

Examples:

*Armor Skin (limit number of times it can be taken to say Char Lvl/3, add a couple pre-reqs like Toughness, Con 15+, and a minimum base fort save of say +7 or 8)

*Combat Archery

*Efficient Item Creation (alter mechanic from 1day/10kgp to say 1day/2kgp or so)

*Dire Charge (add prereqs of Run Ba+8 or so)

*Epic Fortitude, Will, Reflexes

*Epic Skill Focus (change prereqs to 12 ranks in skill, skill focus in the skill. chance type of bonus to competance so it won't stack with skill-boosting magic items.)

*Epic Weapon Focus/Specialization (already included in 3.5 as Greater WF/WS)

*Holy/Unholy Strike (stipulate you must expend a smite attempt to activate the ability and it lasts either 1rnd/point of cha mod, or min/point of cha mod)

*Improved Combat Casting

*Improved Arrow of Death, Death Attack, Ki Strike, Whirlwind Attack

*Instant Reload

*Master Wand/Staff

*Perfect Health

*Planar Turning

*Polyglot

*Spectral Strike

*Spell Knowledge (particularly useful for sorcerers)

 

[Urbannen]

I agree.

Many campaigns will never reach or go past character level 20, yet often high level characters are considered "epic" in campaign terms upon reaching mid-level, like levels 10-12. I don't see why you couldn't consider 10th level to be epic in your campaign and allow epic feats at that point. Lower any skill rank requirement of 23 to 13 and any caster level requirement of 20 to the ability to cast 9th level spells. Feats gained by virtue of a class feature, such as fighter and wizard bonus feats, would still have to be normal.

Feat choices are mostly boring for high level characters, at least in 3.0. This alternate rule would allow more versatility and pizzazz for higher level characters.

 

[Enceladus]

Feat choices are mostly boring for high level characters, at least in 3.0.

Just curious. What other system has feat choices?

 

[drnuncheon]

Yeah that is the feat. But if you look at Greater Two-Weapon Fighting it has the same Prereqs as Two Weapon Rend but has BAB of +15 instead.

Well, sure. They didn't want you to be able to get it the level after you picked up Improved 2WF. (Unless you got I2WF pretty late.)

Sejs: Absolutely right on some of those - in fact, Master Wand/Staff already has a non-epic version in the PsiHandbook as Master Dorje, and there is an 'extra spell known' feat in T&B (although it's not as good as its epic big brother Spell Knowledge).

Many others are the same as abilities of PrCs, and I wouldn't want to undermine the PrC by giving them out as feats at a potentially even earlier level.

J

 

[KDLadage]

Feat choices are mostly boring for high level characters, at least in 3.0.

Just curious. What other system has feat choices?

Uhhh... perhaps you have heard -- WotC is releasing 3.5 real soon now...