Epic Magic Item Costs?!?

[master arminas]

Greetings all!

Does anyone else here find the inflated costs for epic magic items bothersome? I mean, x10? You can't even afford most epic level weapons and armor until you reach 25th level or so (if you use the rule that no more than 25% of your wealth can be spent on any single item).

What do you do about this? What are your ideas, thoughts, opinions?

Arminas tar Valantil
Grand Master of the Ebon Rose

 

[Whimsical]

What do I do about it? I buy every non-epic magic item that I can use before I even consider an epic item.

Before I consider buying a +8 WIS amulet for 640,000 gp, I would have bought five wishes for 132,650 gp to increase my WIS by five points. And that is after buying a +6 WIS amulet for 36,000 gp. And I would have several +10 weapons before buying a +11 or greater weapon.

 

[pawsplay]

Considering they require epic forging techniques, and are often equivalent to minor artifacts in power, I think it's fair.

 

[Jack Simth]

Well, you don't really need an Epic item until you've hit the pre-Epic cap.

Two examples:

Need to penetrate DR/Epic? +4 Bane weapon. A +6 weapon costs 720k in enchantments; a +4 Bane weapon costs 50k in enchantments. You can have 14 +4 Bane weapons for the cost of a single +6 weapon. As there's something like 31 different Bane properties (21 if you ignore the Humanoids) you will eventually want to switch out for an Epic weapon.... unless your DM permits the extra +2 Enhancement from the bane property applied to it's target with the Enhancement bonus from Greater Magic Weapon - in which case, 31 +1 Bane weapons to cover the entire spectrum only cost you 248k. Sure, if you need that +8 weapon to increase your chance to hit any, go for it.... but only after you've exhausted non-epic items.

You can have a +6 Peripat of Wisdom and have read a +5 Tome of Understanding at a cost of 173.5k. A +8 Peripat of Wisdom costs 640k. Sure, if you've already read the +5 Tome, and have the +6 Peripat, and you still need a higher Wisdom score, then yes, go for the +8 Peripat (unless your DM permits Epic Spellcasting as written, in which case, even without mitigation cheese, Fortify lasts 20 hours, and a +8 Wisdom Enhancement is DC 31 (with the 24 ranks in spellcraft you'll have at 21st level, DC 31 shouldn't be a problem if you take 10), costing 279k gp, six days, 11.16k xp to develop - compared to a +8 Peripat of Wisdom, which costs 320k gp, 640 days, and 25.6k xp to forge... but doesn't use up one of your Epic spell slots and a minute of your time every day).

However, it does make found Epic items considerably more likely to be kept and used.... assuming they can't be sold, that is.

 

[Question]

Epic items are broken.......to penetrate DR/Epic you either need massive amounts of +4 bane weapons OR wait until level 25+ for a basic +6 weapon. Ridiculous.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Two examples:

Need to penetrate DR/Epic? +4 Bane weapon.

I'm rather fond of sanding off the serial numbers of Sword of the Planes and Sun Blade (+20k add-on and +3-equivalent, +2 if you just put on the +2 vs evil and double vs undead) and stapling those properties onto my preferred weapon. It's surprising how many things those'll help on.

However, it does make found Epic items considerably more likely to be kept and used.... assuming they can't be sold, that is.

Which is another interesting thing...epic items you don't want. Getting rid of those will be problematic, as it's...unlikely...anyone'll have enough money to buy one. While it might make sense to use the +8 Dragondread Holy Power Greatspear, if I'm a hammer-and-shield dwarf fighter without greatspear proficiency, it's not going to help that much. Something that expensive really begs to be used, when really it's going to go up on the mantle, 'cause also, you're not going to risk it being sundered. Speaking of that, it's disturbing how fragile the epic items are...who's going to make a 3 million gp sword out of regular steel? That calls for AT LEAST adamantine, or possibly something stronger, just to protect your investment.

Also, if you're in an epic game, ask the DM if it's okay to have non-standard items and start bonus-stacking. Like, say, boxer shorts that give a luck bonus to saves.

Brad

 

[pawsplay]

Actually, an item with a very high enhancement bonus is still going to be pretty tough, but yeah, adamantine or something wouldn't be bad for an extra layer of protection.

While it might make sense to use the +8 Dragondread Holy Power Greatspear, if I'm a hammer-and-shield dwarf fighter without greatspear proficiency, it's not going to help that much.

It seems like it would be a cinch to use a wish or some kind of epic spell to transform it into a hammer. Conversely, you could invest in some bracers of proficiency.

EDIT: Also, situationally, the -4 penalty probably doesn't matter all that much.

 

[Whimsical]

Back in 3.0, I would use polymorph any object to reshape magic weapons and armor to a more preferred form.

 

[Jack Simth]

Which is another interesting thing...epic items you don't want. Getting rid of those will be problematic, as it's...unlikely...anyone'll have enough money to buy one. While it might make sense to use the +8 Dragondread Holy Power Greatspear, if I'm a hammer-and-shield dwarf fighter without greatspear proficiency, it's not going to help that much. Something that expensive really begs to be used, when really it's going to go up on the mantle, 'cause also, you're not going to risk it being sundered. Speaking of that, it's disturbing how fragile the epic items are...who's going to make a 3 million gp sword out of regular steel? That calls for AT LEAST adamantine, or possibly something stronger, just to protect your investment.

Yeah, but villians tend not to Sunder for the same reason PC's tend not to sunder. Greed (oh yeah, and those pesky Wealth-By-Level guidelines).

And while yes, non-proficient weapons are a problem, a Peripat of Wisdom +8 is going to be snatched up by somebody; likewise a Headband of Intellect +8, Gauntlets of Ogre Strength +8, et cetera, unless the person who'd want them already has better.

Hmm.... Epic Cursed items..... heh, heh, heh..... they'd be more resistant to identification, break curse, and the like, right...?

 

[Question]

Realistically speaking villains have no reason NOT to sunder....as they are either expected not to survive that combat, or to get defeated by the PCs and be a recurring villain. There is no ingame reason not to sunder PC weapons. This is also why 1/day abilities are more powerful in NPC hands than PC hands, such as sudden maximise. Hell you can put a 1/1 billion year ability on an item and it would still be incredibly powerful in NPC hands.