Fighters vs. Spellcasters (a case for fighters.)

[ImperatorK]

Nowhere did I call you an ass, so... who's taking it personal? Defensive much? There's a Report button. Use it if you don't like my post, because all you're doing is giving me the suspicion that this "hypothetical" DM isn't that hypothetical.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

From the 3.5 SRD:

An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.

While I don't agree with the language used, I have to agree with ImperatorK's assessment of the rule change- its an "always-on" passive ability. I'd no more expect to put the burden on the player to remember this ability than to remember elves' sleep immunity.

As written, it isn't much work for the DM to implement as long as he knows where in the party the elves are located.

By making it a player's responsibility, the Law of Unintended Consequences would make a player's constant attempting to use it fairly predictable.

 

[ImperatorK]

And it encourages, heck, even forces metagaming from players.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I'm wondering how the DM's in this thread react to this.

With a shrug.

 

[N'raac]

I didn't remove the ability entirely, I just placed the burden on the player to keep it in mind, and told the player to be reasonable about using it. I can't imagine that's an egregious breach of trust, oh my, I asked the player to play their character and to not be a snot.

You did remove the ability. Any character can actively search for a secret door. Elves can passively notice the secret door despite not looking for it, or even having no suspicion it is there. Requiring the Elf player to state where he is checking for secret doors is like requiring the players to state they are using their Listen skill to try to hear any invisible assassins sneaking up behind them. The benefits of the passive ability are reduced or eliminated because it now only works when activated by the character.

If the player is "being a snot" by pointing out which walls his elf is walking within 5' of, and can therefore have a roll to check for any secret doors, then it is because the GM has required he "be a snot" in order to use the ability of the Elf in this regard. To me, that makes the GM the "Snot in Chief".

In other words:

While I don't agree with the language used, I have to agree with ImperatorK's assessment of the rule change- its an "always-on" passive ability. I'd no more expect to put the burden on the player to remember this ability than to remember elves' sleep immunity.

As written, it isn't much work for the DM to implement as long as he knows where in the party the elves are located.

By making it a player's responsibility, the Law of Unintended Consequences would make a player's constant attempting to use it fairly predictable.

 

[ImperatorK]

I'm wondering how the DM's in this thread react to this.

I'd be perplexed and kinda annoyed. If a DM would tell me that I should "cut out" using my character's abilities or else "get out" of the game then my answer would be "eff you you stupid jerk, I quit myself", because he clearly doesn't know what he's doing and such a game and DM are a waste of my time.

you missed the point - not the rule that is abusive, but a player being a tool

I'd say it's the DM being a tool.

 

[Manbearcat]

From the 3.5 SRD:


While I don't agree with the language used, I have to agree with ImperatorK's assessment of the rule change- its an "always-on" passive ability. I'd no more expect to put the burden on the player to remember this ability than to remember elves' sleep immunity.

As written, it isn't much work for the DM to implement as long as he knows where in the party the elves are located.

By making it a player's responsibility, the Law of Unintended Consequences would make a player's constant attempting to use it fairly predictable.

10 ft poles and every floor tile/flagstone!

 

[MJS]

I'd be perplexed and kinda annoyed. If a DM would tell me that I should "cut out" using my character's abilities or else "get out" of the game then my answer would be "eff you you stupid jerk, I quit myself", because he clearly doesn't know what he's doing and such a game and DM are a waste of my time.


I'd say it's the DM being a tool.

The example given was the player walking within 5' of every single wall to force a passive check. Thats annoying. Its not about elf abilities. This kind of player, if they exist, would only ruin the game for everyone else.

 

[ImperatorK]

The example given was the player walking within 5' of every single wall to force a passive check. Thats annoying. Its not about elf abilities. This kind of player, if they exist, would only ruin the game for everyone else.

Umm... how?

 

[MJS]

Umm... how?

i imagine its the same player who doesn't shower and constantly rules-lawyers. Just a traumatic memory here. As for elves, I just roll discretely or in advance.