D&D (2024) How is Flex still a thing?

[Horwath]

I think WotC deliberately designs the "simple and easy" choices to be weak so that players who prefer a more active playstyle aren't even slightly enticed by them. The players that these options are made for aren't going to notice that they are sub-optimal.

this might be true, however, then it's the most lazy and frankly insulting from devs to do that.

Why should people that want simple(r) character be mechanically punished.

Simple(passive) and complex(active) ability should be as a close match in power output as possible(we will never get perfect).

Then it should be on players choice, how complex(or fun as some mention) they want their characters to be.


Edit:
That is why I never had problem with Eldritch blast spam, even with 2 levels of warlock dip in some MC cheese.
Your idea of fun is to stand in the back and deal (pretty)good ranged damage with little or no extra effect on the battle.
If that is your "fun", then great. Job of a DM just got a lot easier, if fights because of that are too easy, just beef up HP of monsters.
It's the 5th level and start of usage of hypnotic patter that most are worried about.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Should Flex be better? This is a tough question; on the one hand, I want to say yes, but on the other hand...if we want players to use masteries to make combat more tactical and interesting, I'm not sure how making Flex do more damage will get us there.

I feel like 2-H flex bonus could be some to-hit accuracy boost, a ‘reliable’ damage weapon, but I remember that people say that +X weapons are busted for breaking bounded accuracy and advantage on damage dealt is going to be rolling A LOT of dice constantly that will get tedious and slow the game down fast.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Honestly, I know WoTC didn't have time to go over Flex before this packet. So I'm willing to wait for the revised weapon masteries before I start trying to fix it myself. They may attempt something that inspires a good fix.

 

[mellored]

I think WotC deliberately designs the "simple and easy" choices to be weak so that players who prefer a more active playstyle aren't even slightly enticed by them. The players that these options are made for aren't going to notice that they are sub-optimal.

I think people are overstating how weak it is.

There is not always going to be a spiked growth to push into.
There is not always going to be 2 enemies to cleave.
You won't always be able to follow up with Vex.
Slow will not always help you avoid an attack.
Sapped enemies will not always make attack rolls.
Topple is useless on prone enemies or who are next and can just stand again.

Flex is always there. And since advantage doesn't stack, it is the best option to hit something that has hold monster on it.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I think people are overstating how weak it is.

There is not always going to be a spiked growth to push into.
There is not always going to be 2 enemies to cleave.
You won't always be able to follow up with Vex.
Slow will not always help you avoid an attack.
Sapped enemies will not always make attack rolls.
Topple is useless on prone enemies.

Flex is always there. And since advantage doesn't stack, it is the best option to hit something that has hold monster on it.

You literally just listed all the times a mastery would activate. So, your statement basically reads "I think people are overstating how weak it is. If you can't use any other mastery, flex still works"

Which means it is literally your last possible choice, only when your other choices are non-applicable.

 

[CreamCloud0]

You literally just listed all the times a mastery would activate. So, your statement basically reads "I think people are overstating how weak it is. If you can't use any other mastery, flex still works"

Which means it is literally your last possible choice, only when your other choices are non-applicable.

but isn't their point that you're not always going to be in a situation where a mastery is applicable, (correct me if i'm wrong i havent looked too hard into the specifics of how masterys are distributed and availability) your martial will probably have 2-3 weapons so 2-3 masteries available to them, there are probably going to be many situations one of those 3 specific masteries isn't going to do anything, but more damage is always more damage and is always going to be applicable when attacking with your weapon, or from the other side, you now have a free hand to hold a shield for +2 AC or a spell focus or so on and so forth.

 

[mellored]

You literally just listed all the times a mastery would activate. So, your statement basically reads "I think people are overstating how weak it is. If you can't use any other mastery, flex still works"

Which means it is literally your last possible choice, only when your other choices are non-applicable.

Most classes only get 2 (war priest gets 1).

Taking topple and flex would be a solid and safe choice for a tank paladin.

Only Fighters can take enough situational ones to always have the right weapon for the job (probably).

 

[Sulicius]

this might be true, however, then it's the most lazy and frankly insulting from devs to do that.

Why should people that want simple(r) character be mechanically punished.

Simple(passive) and complex(active) ability should be as a close match in power output as possible(we will never get perfect).

Then it should be on players choice, how complex(or fun as some mention) they want their characters to be.

You’re insulted they added a simple option? Is this really something like calling you names?

I know you’re trying to be helpful, but just try to imagine that there are people perfectly happy to go for a simple route.

It doesn’t need to be stronger, because it isn’t bad. The biggest boost to this weapon mastery is that it is easy to understand and it helps the player get through their turn quickly. That is worth a lot more than any damage calculation to me.

There are so many other options you can pick, why focus so much on one that might be “suboptimal”?

 

[Pauln6]

yes, at 13th level.
I am so happy for 1%(maybe) of playerbase that will enjoy that "superb" feature.

Yeah, I think I would escalate the fighter's mastery progression and treat masteries like skill and armour proficiencies, maybe only giving a single mastery to anyone multiclassing.

I don't think application of two masteries to weapon attacks would be that overpowered for fighters e.g. if you can swap them as a bonus action (instead of a long rest) at 7 and swap for free at 13 or apply two masteries to a single attack as a bonus action.

Feat support might further help with weapon specialist builds.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Flex is not just an increase in damage. It’s being able to get the max damage of a two-handed versatile weapon while also getting the benefits of a shield or dual wielding.