D&D 5E Idea a Redemption Mod for Infernal Warmachines in BG: DiA

[Lyxen]

I'll take the two Waterdeep adventures over Baldur's Gate: DiA any day I'd the week. IMHO the Waterdeep adventures are the best of the edition.

To each his own, I suppose, for me the first one is a railroad fest without any interest whatsoever and where the actions of the players do not matter in the slightest, and the second one is a mega-dungeon, a good one if you like the style, it's just that our groups want a bit more than just dungeons in their D&D.

 

[Bolares]

To each his own, I suppose, for me the first one is a railroad fest without any interest whatsoever and where the actions of the players do not matter in the slightest, and the second one is a mega-dungeon, a good one if you like the style, it's just that our groups want a bit more than just dungeons in their D&D.

I don't think the Baldur's gate part of Avernus is that much more open than Dragonheist. (they have the same level range) And Dragon heist offers a lot of material if you want to tweak and open it up. When I ran it, I let players choice determine who was thwe big bad of the adventure, and added heists to the adventure, by puting the mcguffins needed to open the vault in the villains lairs. But as written I agree the adventure is kind of railrodey.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

To each his own, I suppose, for me the first one is a railroad fest without any interest whatsoever and where the actions of the players do not matter in the slightest, and the second one is a mega-dungeon, a good one if you like the style, it's just that our groups want a bit more than just dungeons in their D&D.

There is some really cool stuff you can do with the Waterdeep books with your creative. Like you can link up Tales of the Yawning Portal with the Megadungeon and one thing you can do with the Megadungeon is to use it as your own base of power after beating Halaster.

And you really want to lean into the gazeeteer for Waterdeep for the early adventure.

 

[Lyxen]

The thing is... you can explicitly free the soul by consuming all the charges in the coin... or you can destroy it to fuel the furnace. (That's what RAW tells us) Your character may not know that information, but if they do... that seems like an unanbigously evil act to use the furnace. That's the problem with the design of the adventure for me. That's not slowly corrupting characters, it's straight up making them choose to be evil or have to walk a lot. That's not an interesting choice for me.

No you can choose to commit an evil act, which does not immediately make you evil, no more than making a single good act would redeem you from a life of evil. Now, choosing to do it over and over again, or wasting it, would probably mean an alignment change, but it would certainly not be the only thing weighing in the balance.

 

[Lyxen]

I don't think the Baldur's gate part of Avernus is that much more open than Dragonheist.

You mean that a single railroad with 10 encounters that can only be done in a certain orders and in which what the PCs done has no effect on the plot is not more railroady than a city adventure where the PCs can go wherever they want in what order they want, and the same with a complete plane to play with ? Even if you respect the adventure to the letter, at least you have two different paths for a limited section of the adventure.

(they have the same level range)

Not really, no, Dragon Heist is level 1-5 and Descent into Avernus level 1-15. This has nothing to do with railroading, by the way, but it goes to show that 75% of Dragon Heist is wasted on any given run of the adventure because of the four seasons, knowing that no one is going to paly two different seasons anyway.

And Dragon heist offers a lot of material if you want to tweak and open it up. When I ran it, I let players choice determine who was thwe big bad of the adventure, and added heists to the adventure, by puting the mcguffins needed to open the vault in the villains lairs. But as written I agree the adventure is kind of railrodey.

It's more than this, it's totally fixed right from the start, the only possibility is total failure at one of the steps, but as long as you don't fail completely, it's complete blank slate for the next episode.

So yes, maybe with a huge amount of work you can do something else with it, but you will always end up wasting 75% of the published material. Whereas I did some work on DiA, and created a complete open city adventure at the start and a complete sandbox while into Avernus with minimal effort and very little waste.

 

[Bolares]

No you can choose to commit an evil act, which does not immediately make you evil, no more than making a single good act would redeem you from a life of evil. Now, choosing to do it over and over again, or wasting it, would probably mean an alignment change, but it would certainly not be the only thing weighing in the balance.

If you keep fuelling coins in to the furnace, isn't it doing it over and over again?

 

[Bolares]

Not really, no, Dragon Heist is level 1-5 and Descent into Avernus level 1-15. This has nothing to do with railroading, by the way, but it goes to show that 75% of Dragon Heist is wasted on any given run of the adventure because of the four seasons, knowing that no one is going to paly two different seasons anyway.

I was talking specifically about the baldur's gate part of the adventure, but maybe I wasn't very clear

 

[Lyxen]

If you keep fuelling coins in to the furnace, isn't it doing it over and over again?

For sure, but again, you can always walk or find mounts, and keep the War Machines for when they make sense or when you have no alternative, if it becomes a real problem.

 

[Bolares]

So yes, maybe with a huge amount of work you can do something else with it

I didn't need a huge amount of work to create an open city... the gazeteer made all the work for me... But I think your are focusing more on what we disagree than what we agree on for some reason. I've agreed Dragonheist is a railroad as written.

 

[Lyxen]

I was talking specifically about the baldur's gate part of the adventure, but maybe I wasn't very clear

Ah, OK, then in terms of value for money, DH is really poor, right ? Because for the same size/price of the book, you get much more usable things with BG-DiA, including a much grander adventure.